Pay Bills With Bitcoin BTC to AUD Living Room Of Satoshi

Hi. I want to give my opinion on a few things.

Hi everyone.
Some of you guys may, or may not have, noticed I've been kinda absent lately, and rather quiet.
Personally, I've taken some time off from being deep into the community to kind of refresh and clear my mind. I've still been working on various things such as the Bitcoin.com Wallet, and Bitcoin Cash Register, but I have not been active in developer discussions on Reddit, Telegram, Twitter, etc.
I've been working on a Minecraft mod like I used to when I was a teenager, and I passed my MSF course too recently.
Anyway, to the point of the post:
After my recent break, I've come back to see a lot of DAA discussion. During my break I kinda saw some DAA discussion in the DAA telegram group since I have to implement whatever new DAA we decide upon into bitcoincashj.
I haven't been following it too closely, just saw people working rather constructively. Jonathan Toomim with his proposal, and various people looking it over. Amaury asking specific questions about certain parts of the algorithm, and so on. Nothing too abnormal.
Now, seemingly out of nowhere Amaury proposes his own DAA. Nothing wrong with that, even if out of nowhere. I personally don't have an opinion on either DAA, just so we're clear.
My problem is with how the community is just falling apart, and with how we look unprofessional and childish. If we're ever to be taken seriously, shit like this is turning rather critical discussion of the protocol and our community into a joke. Practically telling the outside world that we do not even take ourselves seriously. If our goal is peer-to-peer cash for the world, then we should take ourselves seriously.
Then there is shit like this in Telegram, which is along the same line as Shammah's "me-me" competition. And then imaginary's little jab at the IFP with Amaury's Grasberg proposal here, which only reignites drama of the IFP in combination with the current DAA drama.
I'm guilty myself of being "childish" and such in the past, which is why I took a break, cleared my mind, relaxed a bit, and came back to check on things only to see it's gotten worse.
I just want peer-to-peer electronic cash for the world.
submitted by _pokkst to btc [link] [comments]

Why I am supporting Bitcoin Cash

First, I want to say that I believe that Bitcoin (BTC) will moon and that lambo will rain, for several reasons that I won’t explain here and now. So please don't shit on me or down vote this post without explaining yourself properly. I'm saying this because the crypto community is full of young and emotional person insulting each other all the time without being able to explain their view clearly. I’m just sharing my story and my opinion, if I say something wrong, please let me know. No need to be emotional.
My story: I’m French (Forgive my English), a software engineer, working from home, previously in the banking industry, big noob in blockchain code related. I have been supporting bitcoin for a couple of times now, unfortunately I discovered it a bit late, promoting it to people around me as the peer to peer cash system and hoping that it will give us our financial freedom.
During this bear market and after losing a big part of my coins, I finally took the time to get a better understanding of each coin I’m holding and I quickly realised that Bitcoin Cash wasn’t a scam, that Bitcoin BTC is purely a speculative asset, the playground of professional traders, used to rekt noobs and that Lightning network will end as custodial wallets because no one will take the time/risk for opening/closing/securing a channel, especially poor people (few billions). There is no benefit for the average user in maintaining a LN node. I believe it will be more interesting to mine Bitcoin rather than maintaining a LN node.
So basically, I lost faith in the promise made by the Lightning Network which made me focusing on why Bitcoin Cash is the answer to a decentralized peer-to peer electronic cash system. I can confess that in the past I used to believe that second layer solution was the solution for everything, but I changed my mind.
To make it simple, BCH allows to make instant payment for very cheap whereas BTC can’t and won’t.

For each crypto project, I look at those different points:
1. Length of the chain
BTC and BCH are sharing the longest chain, it has been working well without any issues since now 10 years. No other project has such a good track record. This make me feel confident that the chance that this will continue to work as well for years or decades.

2. Community behind it
A good community for me is when you see technical people, risking their reputation/identity by posting videos, writing stuff and talking in public events about the project they support. Based on that, I believe the BCH community is the biggest of all. By technical people I mean someone talking using technical approach to back their opinion rather than beliefs based on emotions. Usually in the crypto space, those people are developers but it’s not always the case.
I made a small list of technical people supporting BCH:
-Peter R. Rizun: Chief Scientist, Bitcoin Unlimited.
-Vitalik Butterin (he often showed his support regarding BCH but didn’t produce any content)
-Jonald Fyookball: Electron Cash Developer
-Jonathan Toomim: Bitcoin cash developer who made interesting proof regarding scaling onchain)
-George Hotz: no need to present this awesome crazy dude!
-Amaury Séchet: Bitcoin Cash Developer and French! 😊
-Rick Falkvinge: Founder of the swedish pirate party, watch his youtube channel.
-Gabriel Cardona (Bitcoin cash developer)
-Justin Bons : Founder & CIO of Cyber Capital
-Dr. Mark B. Lundeberg: Developer researcher
And there is a lot more, but those people are people that I personally trust for their work they shared and that I like following.
Recently we had the Bitcoin cash city conference, another event full of people supporting BCH, that kind of thing doesn’t happen with other crypto. So many brilliant people supporting BCH, how could it be possible that all those guys are supporting a scam or a shitcoin. As well, there is often meetups and conferences all over the world.
The developer community is not centralized, there is multiple teams (BitcoinABC, Bitcoin Unlimited, BCHD, Bcash, Bitcoin Verde…) independent of each other arguing sometimes about technical and political stuff, this ensure that developments and important decisions are not centralized. I find this very healthy. If a fork occurs, it’s not a problem, it will simply double your coin and allows two different ways of thinking to grow and compete. This won’t happen in Bitcoin (BTC) anymore, the way of thinking is centralized for BTC, they all share the same view: the segwit workaround + small block + layer 2 = (moon + lambo) in 18 months.
Regarding CSW, I don’t believe in this guy for now but maybe I’m wrong, maybe this guy is wrongly understood but based on all the things I know about him, he seems too complicated to be someone honest. Honesty comes with simplicity.
Finally, regarding Roger Ver: He is hated a lot and I still don't understand why, I feel sorry for him, I really tried my best to hate him like the crowd, but I couldn’t find any reasons. Many people are saying that he is lying and scamming people but none of them are technically able to explain why. It's really a crazy story and I understand why some people call him "Bitcoin Jesus". I personally think he is doing a great job and I thank him.

3. The current and future adoption
BCH is used by reel people and reel shops (check the bitcoin cash map), there are transactions on the network to buy and sell real things that exist in the real world. Can you believe this? Maybe the only blockchain having that. Please let me know if you know another blockchain which is today serving the real world.
The Bitcoin cash wallet app is easy and exciting to use. Same for the app for merchant. This can be used by my old mum! The BCH roadmap shows that more features will be added to simplify and enhance the user experience. I can’t find other blockchain having that level of user friendliness.
Recently Roger Ver announced HTC mobile phone with a BCH wallet preinstalled. I read as well that Burger King is accepting BCH, but I haven’t verified if this was legit or not.

4. Existing features and roadmap
-Multiple wallets built on all platform.
-Bitcoin Cash point of sales: this app is the app that merchant should use to accept Bitcoin, as well very easy to use and takes 5min to install.
-Cash shuffle with Cash fusion allowing to transact anonymously, making BCH competing with privacy focused coins such like Zcash, Monero, Dash. I heard this function will be implemented as well on mobile devices.
-SLP token: The simplicity of creating a token and sending dividends make BCH a bit competing with all smart blockchain. Anyone can create a token, raise funds and send dividends easily and it works! Will Bitcoin Cash evolve to a smart economy?
-memo.cash: A social network stored on the blockchain, fixing the problem of censorship we have on reddit for example. I recently discovered it, it’s awesome to know that you can write whatever you want, and nobody will be able to delete it and this forever. It’s really an awesome experience. I invite you to test it. For example, yesterday I had fun creating, sending token and being tipped in BCH or in any token by random people, it really shows the potential of BCH. I think I made around 50 on chain transactions in less than one hour with less than 10 cents.
-Stable coins: We can build stable coin on BCH; this is something very important as well.
Regarding the roadmap: It’s well described on bitcoincash.org and looks promising, but no update since the last 5 months. Not sure if it’s normal.

5. Security
SHA256 based algorithm are I believe the most secure, I don’t think we need to add more regarding this. Maybe someone can help me to find some downside regarding security, often some people talk about the potential 51% attack that could occurs on BCH but I couldn’t manage to have my own opinion regarding this.
Regarding the double spending attack because of the zero confirmation, I have asked many people to explain to me how this could potentially be a problem for a real merchant. I think that small and insignificant amount doesn’t need instant confirmation but if you sell a lambo then of course you should wait for at least 5 confirmations.
To summarize I would even consider that zero conf is more advantageous than Lightning Network if you take everything into consideration. Worth case scenario if your restaurant is victim of a double spending attack a few times, you will just increase the confirmation level and prevent your customer from living your place. I think that it’s easier to print fake fiat money and try to pay with it rather than trying a double spending attack. But again, I might have misunderstood something or maybe there is more sophisticated exploits that I haven’t thought of.

6. Price
21 million coins, no inflation, the price currently around 300usd, a boiling community. The potential gains could be as good as BTC and even more. Maybe it’s the so waited coin that you will never convert back to that shit fiat. Certainly, one of the best coins to invest in now.

7. Electricity and efficiency
Since the cost of electricity is the same whatever the size of the block, it means that BCH is more environment friendly than BTC for the same amount of transaction or we can say that it’s "wasting" less energy. Maybe if LN works one day this will change.

My Conclusion:
Bitcoin is technically the worst coin; all others existing coins are better technically. But Bitcoin survives because of the network effect, illustrated by its biggest hash rate, making BTC the most secure blockchain. As well because of promises made by the Lightning Network. Bitcoin is the gold of crypto currencies. Bitcoin like Gold have both almost no utility. In a traditional market, gold drop when economy goes well and goes up when investors need to find a refuge. BTC is the drop zone for fresh meat.
Most of the BTC holders cannot think clearly regarding the BTC/BCH debate, they become completely irrational. This kind of behaviour leads to ruin, especially in trading/investment.With low fees, instant transaction, smart contracts, big community, user friendly apps, stable coin and a lot more to come, Bitcoin Cash has clearly a good future. I hope that someone will find my post useful. Cheers.
submitted by talu3000 to btc [link] [comments]

Subreddit Stats: btc top posts from 2019-01-06 to 2020-01-05 11:19 PDT

Period: 363.85 days
Submissions Comments
Total 1000 86748
Rate (per day) 2.75 237.19
Unique Redditors 317 7747
Combined Score 194633 356658

Top Submitters' Top Submissions

  1. 31014 points, 162 submissions: Egon_1
    1. Vitalik Buterin to Core Maxi: “ok bitcoiner” .... (515 points, 206 comments)
    2. These men are serving life without parole in max security prison for nonviolent drug offenses. They helped me through a difficult time in a very dark place. I hope 2019 was their last year locked away from their loved ones. FreeRoss.org/lifers/ Happy New Year. (502 points, 237 comments)
    3. "It’s official Burger King just accepted Bitcoin Cash and GoC token as a payment option in Slovenia." (423 points, 112 comments)
    4. "HOLY SATOSHI! 😱😱 I did it! A smart card that produces valid BitcoinCash signatures. Who would love to pay with a card—to a phone?? Tap took less than a second!👟..." (368 points, 105 comments)
    5. Chrome 'Has Become Surveillance Software. It's Time to Switch' -> Brave to support BCH! (330 points, 97 comments)
    6. Gavin Andresen (2017): "Running a network near 100% capacity is irresponsible engineering... " (316 points, 117 comments)
    7. "Evidently @github has banned all the Iranian users without an ability for them to download their repositories. A service like Github must be a public good and must not be controlled by a centralized entity. Another great example of why we as a society need to make web3 a reality" (314 points, 117 comments)
    8. Roger Ver: "Bitcoin Cash acceptance is coming to thousands of physical shops in Korea" (313 points, 120 comments)
    9. Paul Sztorc: “Will people really spend $70-$700 to open/modify a lightning channel when there's an Altcoin down the street which will process a (USD-denominated) payment for $0.05 ? Many people seem to think yes but honestly I just don't get it” (306 points, 225 comments)
    10. Food For Thought (303 points, 105 comments)
  2. 29021 points, 157 submissions: MemoryDealers
    1. Bitcoin Cash is Lightning Fast! (No editing needed) (436 points, 616 comments)
    2. Brains..... (423 points, 94 comments)
    3. Meanwhile in Hong Kong (409 points, 77 comments)
    4. Ross Ulbricht has served 6 years in federal prison. (382 points, 156 comments)
    5. Just another day at the Bitcoin Cash accepting super market in Slovenia. (369 points, 183 comments)
    6. Why I'm not a fan of the SV community: My recent bill for defending their frivolous lawsuit against open source software developers. (369 points, 207 comments)
    7. History Reminder: (354 points, 245 comments)
    8. It's more decentralized this way. (341 points, 177 comments)
    9. The new Bitcoin Cash wallet is so fast!!!!! (327 points, 197 comments)
    10. The IRS wants to subpoena Apple and Google to see if you have downloaded crypto currency apps. (324 points, 178 comments)
  3. 6909 points, 37 submissions: BitcoinXio
    1. Tim Pool on Twitter: “How the fuck are people justifying creating a world like the one's depicted in Fahrenheit 451 and 1984? You realize that censorship and banning information was a key aspect of the dystopian nightmare right?” (435 points, 75 comments)
    2. The creator of the now famous HODL meme says that the HODL term has been corrupted and doesn’t mean what he intended; also mentions that the purpose of Bitcoin is to spend it and that BTC has lost its value proposition. (394 points, 172 comments)
    3. Erik Voorhees on Twitter: “I wonder if you realize that if Bitcoin didn’t work well as a payment system in the early days it likely would not have taken off. Many (most?) people found the concept of instant borderless payments captivating and inspiring. “Just hold this stuff” not sufficient.” (302 points, 66 comments)
    4. Bitfinex caught paying a company to astroturf on social media including Reddit, Twitter, Medium and other platforms (285 points, 86 comments)
    5. WARNING: If you try to use the Lightning Network you are at extremely HIGH RISK of losing funds and is not recommended or safe to do at this time or for the foreseeable future (274 points, 168 comments)
    6. Craig Wright seems to have rage quit Twitter (252 points, 172 comments)
    7. No surprise here: Samson Mow among other BTC maxi trolls harassed people to the point of breakdown (with rape threats, etc) (249 points, 85 comments)
    8. On Twitter: “PSA: The Lightning Network is being heavily data mined right now. Opening channels allows anyone to cluster your wallet and associate your keys with your IP address.” (228 points, 102 comments)
    9. btc is being targeted and attacked, yet again (220 points, 172 comments)
    10. Brian Armstrong CEO of Coinbase using Bitcoin Cash (BCH) to pay for food, video in tweet (219 points, 66 comments)
  4. 6023 points, 34 submissions: money78
    1. BSV in a nutshell... (274 points, 60 comments)
    2. There is something going on with @Bitcoin twitter account: 1/ The URL of the white paper has been changed from bitcoin.com into bitcoin.org! 2/ @Bitcoin has unfollowed all other BCH related accounts. 3/ Most of the posts that refer to "bitcoin cash" have been deleted?!! Is it hacked again?! (269 points, 312 comments)
    3. "Not a huge @rogerkver fan and never really used $BCH. But he wiped up the floor with @ToneVays in Malta, and even if you happen to despise BCH, it’s foolish and shortsighted not to take these criticisms seriously. $BTC is very expensive and very slow." (262 points, 130 comments)
    4. Jonathan Toomim: "At 32 MB, we can handle something like 30% of Venezuela's population using BCH 2x per day. Even if that's all BCH ever achieved, I'd call that a resounding success; that's 9 million people raised out of poverty. Not a bad accomplishment for a hundred thousand internet geeks." (253 points, 170 comments)
    5. Jonathan Toomim: "BCH will not allow block sizes that are large enough to wreak havoc. We do our capacity engineering before lifting the capacity limits. BCH's limit is 32 MB, which the network can handle. BSV does not share this approach, and raises limits before improving actual capacity." (253 points, 255 comments)
    6. What Bitcoin Cash has accomplished so far 💪 (247 points, 55 comments)
    7. Which one is false advertising and misleading people?! Bitcoin.com or Bitcoin.org (232 points, 90 comments)
    8. A message from Lightning Labs: "Don't put more money on lightning than you're willing to lose!" (216 points, 118 comments)
    9. Silk Road’s Ross Ulbricht thanks Bitcoin Cash’s [BCH] Roger Ver for campaigning for his release (211 points, 29 comments)
    10. This account just donated more than $6600 worth of BCH via @tipprbot to multiple organizations! (205 points, 62 comments)
  5. 4514 points, 22 submissions: unstoppable-cash
    1. Reminder: bitcoin mods removed top post: "The rich don't need Bitcoin. The poor do" (436 points, 89 comments)
    2. Peter R. Rizun: "LN User walks into a bank, says "I need a loan..." (371 points, 152 comments)
    3. It was SO simple... Satoshi had the answer to prevent full-blocks back in 2010! (307 points, 150 comments)
    4. REMINDER: "Bitcoin isn't for people that live on less than $2/day" -Samson Mow, CSO of BlockStream (267 points, 98 comments)
    5. "F'g insane... waited 5 hrs and still not 1 confirmation. How does anyone use BTC over BCH BitcoinCash?" (258 points, 222 comments)
    6. Irony:"Ave person won't be running LN routing node" But CORE/BTC said big-blocks bad since everyone can't run their own node (256 points, 161 comments)
    7. BitPay: "The Wikimedia Foundation had been accepting Bitcoin for several years but recently switched pmt processors to BitPay so they can now accept Bitcoin Cash" (249 points, 61 comments)
    8. FreeTrader: "Decentralization is dependent on widespread usage..." (195 points, 57 comments)
    9. The FLIPPENING: Fiat->OPEN Peer-to-Peer Electronic Cash! Naomi Brockwell earning more via BitBacker than Patreon! (193 points, 12 comments)
    10. LN Commentary from a guy that knows a thing or 2 about Bitcoin (Gavin Andresen-LEAD developer after Satoshi left in 2010) (182 points, 80 comments)
  6. 3075 points, 13 submissions: BeijingBitcoins
    1. Last night's BCH & BTC meetups in Tokyo were both at the same restaurant (Two Dogs). We joined forces for this group photo! (410 points, 166 comments)
    2. Chess.com used to accept Bitcoin payments but, like many other businesses, disabled the option. After some DMs with an admin there, I'm pleased to announce that they now accept Bitcoin Cash! (354 points, 62 comments)
    3. WSJ: Bitfinex Used Tether Reserves to Mask Missing $850 Million, Probe Finds (348 points, 191 comments)
    4. Bitcoiners: Then and Now [MEME CONTEST - details in comments] (323 points, 72 comments)
    5. I'd post this to /Bitcoin but they would just remove it right away (also I'm banned) (320 points, 124 comments)
    6. So this is happening at the big protest in Hong Kong right now (270 points, 45 comments)
    7. /Bitcoin mods are censoring posts that explain why BitPay has to charge an additional fee when accepting BTC payments (219 points, 110 comments)
    8. The guy who won this week's MillionaireMakers drawing has received ~$55 in BCH and ~$30 in BTC. It will cost him less than $0.01 to move the BCH, but $6.16 (20%) in fees to move the BTC. (164 points, 100 comments)
    9. The Bitcoin whitepaper was published 11 years ago today. Check out this comic version of the whitepaper, one of the best "ELI5" explanations out there. (153 points, 12 comments)
    10. Two Years™ is the new 18 Months™ (142 points, 113 comments)
  7. 2899 points, 18 submissions: jessquit
    1. Oh, the horror! (271 points, 99 comments)
    2. A few days ago I caught flak for reposting a set of graphs that didn't have their x-axes correctly labeled or scaled. tvand13 made an updated graph with correct labeling and scaling. I am reposting it as I promised. I invite the viewer to draw their own conclusions. (214 points, 195 comments)
    3. Do you think Bitcoin needs to increase the block size? You're in luck! It already did: Bitcoin BCH. Avoid the upcoming controversial BTC block size debate by trading your broken Bitcoin BTC for upgraded Bitcoin BCH now. (209 points, 194 comments)
    4. Master list of evidence regarding Bitcoin's hijacking and takeover by Blockstream (185 points, 113 comments)
    5. PSA: BTC not working so great? Bitcoin upgraded in 2017. The upgraded Bitcoin is called BCH. There's still time to upgrade! (185 points, 192 comments)
    6. Nobody uses Bitcoin Cash (182 points, 88 comments)
    7. Double-spend proofs, SPV fraud proofs, and Cashfusion improvements all on the same day! 🏅 BCH PLS! 🏅 (165 points, 36 comments)
    8. [repost] a reminder on how btc and Bitcoin Cash came to be (150 points, 102 comments)
    9. Holy shit the entire "negative with gold" sub has become a shrine devoted to the guilded astroturfing going on in rbtc (144 points, 194 comments)
    10. This sub is the only sub in all of Reddit that allows truly uncensored discussion of BTC. If it turns out that most of that uncensored discussion is negative, DON'T BLAME US. (143 points, 205 comments)
  8. 2839 points, 13 submissions: SwedishSalsa
    1. With Bitcoin, for the first time in modern history, we have a way to opt out. (356 points, 100 comments)
    2. In this age of rampant censorship and control, this is why I love Bitcoin. (347 points, 126 comments)
    3. The crypto expert (303 points, 29 comments)
    4. Satoshi reply to Mike Hearn, April 2009. Everybody, especially newcomers and r-bitcoin-readers should take a step back and read this. (284 points, 219 comments)
    5. Bitcoin Cash looking good lately. (235 points, 33 comments)
    6. Roger Ver bad (230 points, 61 comments)
    7. History of the BTC scaling debate (186 points, 54 comments)
    8. MFW i read Luke Jr wants to limit BTC blocks to 300k. (183 points, 116 comments)
    9. Meanwhile over at bitcoinsv... (163 points, 139 comments)
    10. Listen people... (155 points, 16 comments)
  9. 2204 points, 10 submissions: increaseblocks
    1. China bans Bitcoin again, and again, and again (426 points, 56 comments)
    2. China bans Bitcoin (again) (292 points, 35 comments)
    3. Bitcoin Cash Network has now been upgraded! (238 points, 67 comments)
    4. So you want small blocks with high fees to validate your own on chain transactions that happen OFF CHAIN? (212 points, 112 comments)
    5. It’s happening - BTC dev Luke jr writing code to Bitcoin BTC codebase to fork to lower the block size to 300kb! (204 points, 127 comments)
    6. Former BTC maximalist admits that maxi's lied cheated and stealed to get SegWit and Lightning (201 points, 135 comments)
    7. Just 18 more months to go! (172 points, 86 comments)
    8. Bitcoin Cash ring - F*CK BANKS (167 points, 51 comments)
    9. LTC Foundation chat leaked: no evidence of development, lack of transparency (155 points, 83 comments)
    10. A single person controls nearly half of all the Lightning Network’s capacity (137 points, 109 comments)
  10. 2138 points, 12 submissions: JonyRotten
    1. 'Craig Is a Liar' – Early Adopter Proves Ownership of Bitcoin Address Claimed by Craig Wright (309 points, 165 comments)
    2. 200,000 People Have Signed Ross Ulbricht's Clemency Petition (236 points, 102 comments)
    3. Street Artist Hides $1,000 in BTC Inside a Mural Depicting Paris Protests (236 points, 56 comments)
    4. Craig Wright Ordered to Produce a List of Early Bitcoin Addresses in Kleiman Lawsuit (189 points, 66 comments)
    5. Ross Ulbricht Clemency Petition Gathers 250,000 Signatures (163 points, 24 comments)
    6. Ross Ulbricht Letter Questions the Wisdom of Imprisoning Non-Violent Offenders (160 points, 50 comments)
    7. Expert Witness in Satoshi Case Claims Dr Wright's Documents Were Doctored (155 points, 44 comments)
    8. California City Official Uses Bitcoin Cash to Purchase Cannabis (151 points, 36 comments)
    9. Money Transmitter License Not Required for Crypto Businesses in Pennsylvania (141 points, 9 comments)
    10. McAfee to Launch Decentralized Token Exchange With No Restrictions (137 points, 35 comments)

Top Commenters

  1. jessquit (16708 points, 2083 comments)
  2. Ant-n (7878 points, 1517 comments)
  3. MemoryDealers (7366 points, 360 comments)
  4. Egon_1 (6205 points, 1001 comments)
  5. 500239 (5745 points, 735 comments)
  6. BitcoinXio (4640 points, 311 comments)
  7. LovelyDay (4353 points, 457 comments)
  8. chainxor (4293 points, 505 comments)
  9. MobTwo (3420 points, 174 comments)
  10. ShadowOfHarbringer (3388 points, 478 comments)

Top Submissions

  1. The perfect crypto t-shirt by Korben (742 points, 68 comments)
  2. The future of Libra Coin by themadscientistt (722 points, 87 comments)
  3. when you become a crypto trader... by forberniesnow (675 points, 54 comments)
  4. A Reminder Why You Shouldn’t Use Google. by InMyDayTVwasBooks (637 points, 209 comments)
  5. Imagine if in 2000 Apple just sat around all day shit-talking Microsoft. Apple would have never gone anywhere. Apple succeeded because they learned from their mistakes, improved, and got better. BCH should do the same. by guyfawkesfp (552 points, 255 comments)
  6. Bitcoin made The Simpsons intro! Sorry for the potato quality by Johans_wilgat (521 points, 44 comments)
  7. Vitalik Buterin to Core Maxi: “ok bitcoiner” .... by Egon_1 (515 points, 206 comments)
  8. Can't stop won't stop by Greentoboggan (514 points, 78 comments)
  9. These men are serving life without parole in max security prison for nonviolent drug offenses. They helped me through a difficult time in a very dark place. I hope 2019 was their last year locked away from their loved ones. FreeRoss.org/lifers/ Happy New Year. by Egon_1 (502 points, 237 comments)
  10. Blockchain? by unesgt (479 points, 103 comments)

Top Comments

  1. 211 points: fireduck's comment in John Mcafee on the run from IRS Tax Evasion charges, running 2020 Presidential Campaign from Venezuela in Exile
  2. 203 points: WalterRothbard's comment in I am a Bitcoin supporter and developer, and I'm starting to think that Bitcoin Cash could be better, but I have some concerns, is anyone willing to discuss them?
  3. 179 points: Chris_Pacia's comment in The BSV chain has just experienced a 6-block reorg
  4. 163 points: YourBodyIsBCHn's comment in I made this account specifically to tip in nsfw/gonewild subreddits
  5. 161 points: BeijingBitcoins's comment in Last night's BCH & BTC meetups in Tokyo were both at the same restaurant (Two Dogs). We joined forces for this group photo!
  6. 156 points: hawks5999's comment in You can’t make this stuff up. This is how BTC supporters actually think. From bitcoin: “What you can do to make BTC better: check twice if you really need to use it!” 🤦🏻‍♂️
  7. 155 points: lowstrife's comment in Steve Wozniak Sold His Bitcoin at Its Peak $20,000 Valuation
  8. 151 points: kdawgud's comment in The government is taking away basic freedoms we each deserve
  9. 147 points: m4ktub1st's comment in BCH suffered a 51% attack by colluding miners to re-org the chain in order to reverse transactions - why is nobody talking about this? Dangerous precident
  10. 147 points: todu's comment in Why I'm not a fan of the SV community: My recent bill for defending their frivolous lawsuit against open source software developers.
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submitted by subreddit_stats to subreddit_stats [link] [comments]

A technical dive into CTOR

Over the last several days I've been looking into detail at numerous aspects of the now infamous CTOR change to that is scheduled for the November hard fork. I'd like to offer a concrete overview of what exactly CTOR is, what the code looks like, how well it works, what the algorithms are, and outlook. If anyone finds the change to be mysterious or unclear, then hopefully this will help them out.
This document is placed into public domain.

What is TTOR? CTOR? AOR?

Currently in Bitcoin Cash, there are many possible ways to order the transactions in a block. There is only a partial ordering requirement in that transactions must be ordered causally -- if a transaction spends an output from another transaction in the same block, then the spending transaction must come after. This is known as the Topological Transaction Ordering Rule (TTOR) since it can be mathematically described as a topological ordering of the graph of transactions held inside the block.
The November 2018 hard fork will change to a Canonical Transaction Ordering Rule (CTOR). This CTOR will enforce that for a given set of transactions in a block, there is only one valid order (hence "canonical"). Any future blocks that deviate from this ordering rule will be deemed invalid. The specific canonical ordering that has been chosen for November is a dictionary ordering (lexicographic) based on the transaction ID. You can see an example of it in this testnet block (explorer here, provided this testnet is still alive). Note that the txids are all in dictionary order, except for the coinbase transaction which always comes first. The precise canonical ordering rule can be described as "coinbase first, then ascending lexicographic order based on txid".
(If you want to have your bitcoin node join this testnet, see the instructions here. Hopefully we can get a public faucet and ElectrumX server running soon, so light wallet users can play with the testnet too.)
Another ordering rule that has been suggested is removing restrictions on ordering (except that the coinbase must come first) -- this is known as the Any Ordering Rule (AOR). There are no serious proposals to switch to AOR but it will be important in the discussions below.

Two changes: removing the old order (TTOR->AOR), and installing a new order (AOR->CTOR)

The proposed November upgrade combines two changes in one step:
  1. Removing the old causal rule: now, a spending transaction can come before the output that it spends from the same block.
  2. Adding a new rule that fixes the ordering of all transactions in the block.
In this document I am going to distinguish these two steps (TTOR->AOR, AOR->CTOR) as I believe it helps to clarify the way different components are affected by the change.

Code changes in Bitcoin ABC

In Bitcoin ABC, several thousand lines of code have been changed from version 0.17.1 to version 0.18.1 (the current version at time of writing). The differences can be viewed here, on github. The vast majority of these changes appear to be various refactorings, code style changes, and so on. The relevant bits of code that deal with the November hard fork activation can be found by searching for "MagneticAnomaly"; the variable magneticanomalyactivationtime sets the time at which the new rules will activate.
The main changes relating to transaction ordering are found in the file src/validation.cpp:
There are other changes as well:

Algorithms

Serial block processing (one thread)

One of the most important steps in validating blocks is updating the unspent transaction outputs (UTXO) set. It is during this process that double spends are detected and invalidated.
The standard way to process a block in bitcoin is to loop through transactions one-by-one, removing spent outputs and then adding new outputs. This straightforward approach requires exact topological order and fails otherwise (therefore it automatically verifies TTOR). In pseudocode:
for tx in transactions: remove_utxos(tx.inputs) add_utxos(tx.outputs) 
Note that modern implementations do not apply these changes immediately, rather, the adds/removes are saved into a commit. After validation is completed, the commit is applied to the UTXO database in batch.
By breaking this into two loops, it becomes possible to update the UTXO set in a way that doesn't care about ordering. This is known as the outputs-then-inputs (OTI) algorithm.
for tx in transactions: add_utxos(tx.outputs) for tx in transactions: remove_utxos(tx.inputs) 
Benchmarks by Jonathan Toomim with Bitcoin ABC, and by myself with ElectrumX, show that the performance penalty of OTI's two loops (as opposed to the one loop version) is negligible.

Concurrent block processing

The UTXO updates actually form a significant fraction of the time needed for block processing. It would be helpful if they could be parallelized.
There are some concurrent algorithms for block validation that require quasi-topological order to function correctly. For example, multiple workers could process the standard loop shown above, starting at the beginning. A worker temporarily pauses if the utxo does not exist yet, since it's possible that another worker will soon create that utxo.
There are issues with such order-sensitive concurrent block processing algorithms:
In contrast, the OTI algorithm's loops are fully parallelizable: the worker threads can operate in an independent manner and touch transactions in any order. Until recently, OTI was thought to be unable to verify TTOR, so one reason to remove TTOR was that it would allow changing to parallel OTI. It turns out however that this is not true: Jonathan Toomim has shown that TTOR enforcement is easily added by recording new UTXOs' indices within-block, and then comparing indices during the remove phase.
In any case, it appears to me that any concurrent validation algorithm would need such additional code to verify that TTOR is being exactly respected; thus for concurrent validation TTOR is a hindrance at best.

Advanced parallel techniques

With Bitcoin Cash blocks scaling to large sizes, it may one day be necessary to scale onto advanced server architectures involving sharding. A lot of discussion has been made over this possibility, but really it is too early to start optimizing for sharding. I would note that at this scale, TTOR is not going to be helpful, and CTOR may or may not lead to performance optimizations.

Block propagation (graphene)

A major bottleneck that exists in Bitcoin Cash today is block propagation. During the stress test, it was noticed that the largest blocks (~20 MB) could take minutes to propagate across the network. This is a serious concern since propagation delays mean increased orphan rates, which in turn complicate the economics and incentives of mining.
'Graphene' is a set reconciliation technique using bloom filters and invertible bloom lookup tables. It drastically reduces the amount of bandwidth required to communicate a block. Unfortunately, the core graphene mechanism does not provide ordering information, and so if many orderings are possible then ordering information needs to be appended. For large blocks, this ordering information makes up the majority of the graphene message.
To reduce the size of ordering information while keeping TTOR, miners could optionally decide to order their transactions in a canonical ordering (Gavin's order, for example) and the graphene protocol could be hard coded so that this kind of special order is transmitted in one byte. This would add a significant technical burden on mining software (to create blocks in such a specific unusual order) as well as graphene (which must detect this order, and be able to reconstruct it). It is not clear to me whether it would be possible to efficiently parallelize sorting algortithms that reconstruct these orderings.
The adoption of CTOR gives an easy solution to all this: there is only one ordering, so no extra ordering information needs to be appended. The ordering is recovered with a comparison sort, which parallelizes better than a topological sort. This should simplify the graphene codebase and it removes the need to start considering supporting various optional ordering encodings.

Reversibility and technical debt

Can the change to CTOR be undone at a later time? Yes and no.
For block validators / block explorers that look over historical blocks, the removal of TTOR will permanently rule out usage of the standard serial processing algorithm. This is not really a problem (aside from the one-time annoyance), since OTI appears to be just as efficient in serial, and it parallelizes well.
For anything that deals with new blocks (like graphene, network protocol, block builders for mining, new block validation), it is not a problem to change the ordering at a later date (to AOR / TTOR or back to CTOR again, or something else). These changes would add no long term technical debt, since they only involve new blocks. For past-block validation it can be retroactively declared that old blocks (older than a few months) have no ordering requirement.

Summary and outlook

Taking a broader view, graphene is not the magic bullet for network propagation. Even with the CTOR-improved graphene, we might not see vastly better performance right away. There is also work needed in the network layer to simply move the messages faster between nodes. In the last stress test, we also saw limitations on mempool performance (tx acceptance and relaying). I hope both of these fronts see optimizations before the next stress test, so that a fresh set of bottlenecks can be revealed.
submitted by markblundeberg to btc [link] [comments]

Some advice for everybody at this point in time

Hi all. I'm taking the liberty to share some hard-won experience at this point in time.

Some advice for Core and supporters

It's easy to feel resentment at this stage, having done so much work and written so much high-quality code, and yet getting a shitstorm for it. When I was leading the Swedish Pirate Party into the European Parliament, I was gradually getting used to getting a barrage of criticism grenades for everything I did and didn't do every single day, starting with when I did or didn't get out of bed in the morning.
It's very hard to explain what this does to your psyche to somebody who hasn't experienced it. Imagine everybody was out to get you, every single day, and giving you high-pitched screaming blame for everything from an orange being round to some Mongolian guy's utter misinterpretation of what you said three years ago.
I'm not exaggerating when I say that people could probably snap and go restraining-shirt-insane for much less.
But the crucial thing when you're in a leadership position like that, getting criticism for absolutely everything, is to maintain your ability to sort the relevant criticism apart from the back seat drivers who make a living out of complaining but not contributing. You've also got to trust your inner compass of the vision you want to accomplish.
From what I can tell, Core has made the common but crucial mistake of isolating itself from the community and taking on an expert attitude toward everybody else in trusting this inner vision compass over external criticism, where Core is somehow right by definition - the development happens as Core wants it, period. This is very dangerous in any open-source / free software project. Other people are just as intelligent and may have considerable experience and ability to evaluate the claims made, and these should - no, must - be taken seriously.
To illustrate just one point, let's take a look at Core's scaling solution here, Segregated Witness.
When I apply my nontrivial experience in coding and systems design - I started coding 37 years ago - I see these two options for scaling bitcoin near-term:
OPTION ONE - Change the blocksize upper limit to two megabytes. One line of code for the constant, about ten LOCs for activation trigger logic. Requires upgrading of a majority server software.
OPTION TWO - Introduce Segwit. About 500 lines of new code, of which at least 100 in the hypersensitive consensus code. Requires upgrading a majority of server software and all client/wallet software and client/wallet hardware, especially those needing to pay money to an arbitrary address (as Segwit introduces a new type of address).
When proponents of Core's scaling tell me that Option Two here is the better because it's safer, and I try to comprehend that statement, I am either utterly insane or the statement is the equivalent of "black is white and up is down". It's just not completely counter to all experience in software engineering risk management, it's so far out it doesn't reflect sunlight anymore.
When I try to understand more and challenge the assertion that option two is safer - on what I must say are very good grounds - I'm told that I should be leaving design to the experts and that I don't understand enough of the complex machine that is bitcoin. I know I am capable of learning complexities, but I am firmly told off from even trying.
That's just not how you succeed in maintaining a community. That's not how you make people want to run your code.
Of course, people are free to run whatever code they like. But the checks and balances in an open source community is simple: if the leadership for a project builds something different from what people want to run, they will run something else. It's therefore in the interest of the leadership to listen to the community to understand what software a majority wants to run. These competing interests provide the checks and balances.
Now, I understand the complexity of block transfer times through the Chinese firewall and that preliminary tests indicate that a typical full node is saturated at a blocksize of 32 megabytes. However, none of these limits will be hit by this particular scaling. Also, when blazing a trail like this, you work one problem at a time, you solve one bottleneck at a time. People have been flagging for the necessity of increasing the blocksize for ... I don't have dates here at hand, but it should be the better part of a year if not more. Further down the road, scaling node throughput capacity can be done in a number of ways from GPUing ECDSA to specialized hardware, but it's not the imminent bottleneck.
When such an enormous amount of crucial data (on the need to raise the blocksize limit) is ignored, that is done at the peril of the project.
People in the bitcoin community are intelligent geeks, capable of inhaling absurd amounts of information and cross-referencing all of it. If you are unable to explain why your solution is better than another proposed solution, people will be utterly dissatisfied with the response "because we are the experts" - for you must assume that other people in the community, in the general case, are at least as intelligent and capable of learning as you are. It's even possible that if you can't explain your solution to an open and intelligent mind, it's not a good solution.

Some advice for Classic and supporters

So it appears the hard fork is happening. A lot of people have fought hard to raise the blocksize limit for a long time, using a variety of means, and it seems to be happening at long last.
Core didn't take the last available opportunity to include a blocksize limit lift in 0.12, but have announced the release candidate without that feature. So this is it, this is when the fork happens or doesn't happen. Right now, based on announced support, the fork appears to be moving forward. A lot of people supporting Classic are feeling a lot of relief, even if people know that this effort is not done until the blocksize trigger has activated on the network. It's far from there at this point - there's not even deployed code. But everything seems to be going the right way.
It's important to reflect on how this is more than a discussion on features. This is an election of what people decide get to decide on the features, direction, quality, and vision moving forward. And as Satoshi declared, there's only one thing determining the outcome of the election: what code is producing the longest chain. That's how bitcoin's democracy works, right there.
This is not a selection of features. It's much bigger than that. It's an election of governance and stewardship into the future.
As in most elections, there has been a lot of animosity - in both directions. As heels have been dug in, ditches turned to trenches, and preferences turned into prestige, people are starting to call out each other and accuse the other side of not working for what's best for bitcoin, and actively naming specific names in negative contexts.
When those in power do this to you, you're feeling everything in the book between resentment, belittling, and outrage. It's easy to do the same thing back. There have even been suggestions that Core is deliberately sabotaging bitcoin to the benefit of ... a selection of actors.
This creates a toxic culture leading up to the election point, where people are afraid to take bitcoin-positive initiatives in anticipation of all the negative attention that follows - for in such an environment, practically all attention will be negative.
It doesn't help that people incumbent in positions of power tend to "do what they must, because they can" in order to safeguard the status quo, however small or insignificant that incumbency is - this includes everything from Theymos' deletion of discussions, via the silly DDoS attacks on XT nodes, to LukeJR's poison pull request to Classic about killing all miner hardware investment. Actions such as these are not really excusable, but they are still human: people tend to do the very human mistake of letting the ends justify the means, with the ends being what they believe is best for the bitcoin network.
Of course, other people disagree of what's best for the bitcoin network, and toxicity follows until the conflict is resolved. And beyond. The toxicity will remain until actively removed by leadership.
It is the responsibility of the winner in any rift to end a toxic animosity culture of hostilities and personal adversarialism. I cannot stress this enough.
History is full of examples where the winners refused to live alongside the losers and rebuild the world together once the conflict was resolved. It never ends well. On the other hand, where the opposite has been true - South Africa's end of segregation with Mandela as president comes to mind as a good example of leadership here - people learn to put animosity behind them.
A lot of people who have submitted code to Core (and previously) are skilled coders, after all, working from their vision. This vision doesn't have to be incompatible with Classic's vision in the slightest - it may just be a matter of slightly different feature priorities, with people intending to get everything in there anyway.
(I'd also therefore like to praise Jonathan Toomim for not engaging in the rifting but focusing on solving the problem to most people's acceptance. Real MVP right there.)

Finally, some personal reflections

Unfortunately, I believe bitcoin development has lost touch with large-scale rollout necessities over the past year or so. At the moment, there are three use cases which all new features should seek to improve:
Remittance. The act of sending money between individuals in different countries.
Drop-in credit card replacement, from the perspectives of both the payer and the merchant (two different use cases). This means that a payment must be instant, easy, and much cheaper than a credit card settlement.
These three use cases must be front left, right, and center when doing any design on the bitcoin network, as far as I'm concerned. They also reinforce each other when funds received by remittance don't have to go via fiat to be used for purchasing something.
If there's no profit to be made in using bitcoin as a drop-in replacement for credit card payments, bitcoin will not be deployed at scale. Deployment and outcompeting legacy systems depend entirely on merchant financial gains from rollout. The story begins and ends with this observation.
That's why I'm concerned when I'm looking at the features of 0.12. I don't see any features targeting one of these three use cases. Fact is, I see at least one feature severely degrading the drop-in capability of credit card replacement - RBF - and the lack of scaling severely jeopardizing, not to say ultimately removing, the profitability in replacing credit cards.
What I see is instead engineering for the sake of engineering. The question of "who's the customer?" seems to have gotten lost in the process. While it's arguable that there's no customer as such in an open source project, there's nevertheless an importance in understanding where the front bowling pins are for a disruptive technology like this - and it's certainly not in the one-time initialization time of starting up a new node. I'd argue that the front bowling pins instead are the three use cases I listed above, and would love to see a stronger focus on tangible use cases moving forward even if people disagree with my choice of cases.
Onward and upward. Bitcoin will recover and move on. Let's learn from this experience.
submitted by Falkvinge to Bitcoin [link] [comments]

Some advice for everybody at this point in time

Hi all. I'm taking the liberty to share some hard-won experience at this point in time.

Some advice for Classic and supporters

So it appears the hard fork is happening. A lot of people have fought hard to raise the blocksize limit for a long time, using a variety of means, and it seems to be happening at long last.
Core didn't take the last available opportunity to include a blocksize limit lift in 0.12, but have announced the release candidate without that feature. So this is it, this is when the fork happens or doesn't happen. Right now, based on announced support, the fork appears to be moving forward. A lot of people supporting Classic are feeling a lot of relief, even if people know that this effort is not done until the blocksize trigger has activated on the network. It's far from there at this point - there's not even deployed code. But everything seems to be going the right way.
It's important to reflect on how this is more than a discussion on features. This is an election of what people decide get to decide on the features, direction, quality, and vision moving forward. And as Satoshi declared, there's only one thing determining the outcome of the election: what code is producing the longest chain. That's how bitcoin's democracy works, right there.
This is not a selection of features. It's much bigger than that. It's an election of governance and stewardship into the future.
As in most elections, there has been a lot of animosity - in both directions. As heels have been dug in, ditches turned to trenches, and preferences turned into prestige, people are starting to call out each other and accuse the other side of not working for what's best for bitcoin, and actively naming specific names in negative contexts.
When those in power do this to you, you're feeling everything in the book between resentment, belittling, and outrage. It's easy to do the same thing back. There have even been suggestions that Core is deliberately sabotaging bitcoin to the benefit of ... a selection of actors.
This creates a toxic culture leading up to the election point, where people are afraid to take bitcoin-positive initiatives in anticipation of all the negative attention that follows - for in such an environment, practically all attention will be negative.
It doesn't help that people incumbent in positions of power tend to "do what they must, because they can" in order to safeguard the status quo, however small or insignificant that incumbency is - this includes everything from Theymos' deletion of discussions, via the silly DDoS attacks on XT nodes, to LukeJR's poison pull request to Classic about killing all miner hardware investment. Actions such as these are not really excusable, but they are still human: people tend to do the very human mistake of letting the ends justify the means, with the ends being what they believe is best for the bitcoin network.
Of course, other people disagree of what's best for the bitcoin network, and toxicity follows until the conflict is resolved. And beyond. The toxicity will remain until actively removed by leadership.
It is the responsibility of the winner in any rift to end a toxic animosity culture of hostilities and personal adversarialism. I cannot stress this enough.
History is full of examples where the winners refused to live alongside the losers and rebuild the world together once the conflict was resolved. It never ends well. On the other hand, where the opposite has been true - South Africa's end of segregation with Mandela as president comes to mind as a good example of leadership here - people learn to put animosity behind them.
There's a highly-upvoted thread already about keeping the moral high ground in /btc, which makes me happy. However, an effort like the one I'm describing goes beyond not behaving badly. The winning side must actively take responsibility for reconciliation.
A lot of people who have submitted code to Core (and previously) are skilled coders, after all, working from their vision. This vision doesn't have to be incompatible with Classic's vision in the slightest - it may just be a matter of slightly different feature priorities, with people intending to get everything in there anyway.
This assumes, of course, that the hard fork happens. We're not there yet. Do not take success for granted; many projects have fallen on taking success for granted.
(I'd also therefore like to praise Jonathan Toomim for not engaging in the rifting but focusing on solving the problem to most people's acceptance. Real MVP right there.)

Some advice for Core and supporters

It's easy to feel resentment at this stage, having done so much work and written so much high-quality code, and yet getting a shitstorm for it. When I was leading the Swedish Pirate Party into the European Parliament, I was gradually getting used to getting a barrage of criticism grenades for everything I did and didn't do every single day, starting with when I did or didn't get out of bed in the morning.
It's very hard to explain what this does to your psyche to somebody who hasn't experienced it. Imagine everybody was out to get you, every single day, and giving you high-pitched screaming blame for everything from an orange being round to some Mongolian guy's utter misinterpration of what you said three years ago.
I'm not exaggerating when I say that people could probably snap and go restraining-shirt-insane for much less.
But the crucial thing when you're in a leadership position like that, getting criticism for absolutely everything, is to maintain your ability to sort the relevant criticism apart from the back seat drivers who make a living out of complaining but not contributing. You've also got to trust your inner compass of the vision you want to accomplish.
From what I can tell, Core has made the common but crucial mistake of isolating itself from the community and taking on an expert attitude toward everybody else in trusting this inner vision compass over external criticism, where Core is somehow right by definition - the development happens as Core wants it, period. This is very dangerous in any open-source / free software project. Other people are just as intelligent and may have considerable experience and ability to evaluate the claims made, and these should - no, must - be taken seriously.
To illustrate just one point, let's take a look at Core's scaling solution here, Segregated Witness.
When I apply my nontrivial experience in coding and systems design - I started coding 37 years ago - I see these two options for scaling bitcoin near-term:
OPTION ONE - Change the blocksize upper limit to two megabytes. One line of code for the constant, about ten LOCs for activation trigger logic. Requires upgrading of a majority server software.
OPTION TWO - Introduce Segwit. About 500 lines of new code, of which at least 100 in the hypersensitive consensus code. Requires upgrading a majority of server software and all client/wallet software and client/wallet hardware, especially those needing to pay money to an arbitrary address (as Segwit introduces a new type of address that both sender and receiver must handle).
When proponents of Core's scaling tell me that Option Two here is the better because it's safer, and I try to comprehend that statement, I am either utterly insane or the statement is the equivalent of "black is white and up is down". It's just not completely counter to all experience in software engineering risk management, it's so far out it doesn't reflect sunlight anymore.
When I try to understand more and challenge the assertion that option two is safer - on what I must say are very good grounds - I'm told that I should be leaving design to the experts and that I don't understand enough of the complex machine that is bitcoin. I know I am capable of learning complexities, but I am firmly told off from even trying.
That's just not how you succeed in maintaining a community. That's not how you make people want to run your code.
Of course, people are free to run whatever code they like. But the checks and balances in an open source community is simple: if the leadership for a project builds something different from what people want to run, they will run something else. It's therefore in the interest of the leadership to listen to the community to understand what software a majority wants to run. These competing interests provide the checks and balances.
Now, I understand the complexity of block transfer times through the Chinese firewall and that preliminary tests indicate that a typical full node is saturated at a blocksize of 32 megabytes. However, none of these limits will be hit by this particular scaling. Also, when blazing a trail like this, you work one problem at a time, you solve one bottleneck at a time. People have been flagging for the necessity of increasing the blocksize for ... I don't have dates here at hand, but it should be the better part of a year if not more. Further down the road, scaling node throughput capacity can be done in a number of ways from GPUing ECDSA to specialized hardware, but it's not the imminent bottleneck.
When such an enormous amount of crucial data (on the need to raise the blocksize limit) is ignored, that is done at the peril of the project.
People in the bitcoin community are intelligent geeks, capable of inhaling absurd amounts of information and cross-referencing all of it. If you are unable to explain why your solution is better than another proposed solution, people will be utterly dissatisfied with the response "because we are the experts" - for you must assume that other people in the community, in the general case, are at least as intelligent and capable of learning as you are. It's even possible that if you can't explain your solution to an open and intelligent mind, it's not a good solution.

Finally, some personal reflections

Unfortunately, I believe bitcoin development has lost touch with large-scale rollout necessities over the past year or so. At the moment, there are three use cases which all new features should seek to improve:
Remittance. The act of sending money between individuals in different countries.
Drop-in credit card replacement, from the perspectives of both the payer and the merchant (two different use cases). This means that a payment must be instant, easy, and much cheaper than a credit card settlement.
These three use cases must be front left, right, and center when doing any design on the bitcoin network, as far as I'm concerned. They also reinforce each other when funds received by remittance don't have to go via fiat to be used for purchasing something.
If there's no profit to be made in using bitcoin as a drop-in replacement for credit card payments, bitcoin will not be deployed at scale. Deployment and outcompeting legacy systems depend entirely on merchant financial gains from rollout. The story begins and ends with this observation.
That's why I'm concerned when I'm looking at the features of 0.12. I don't see any features targeting one of these three use cases. Fact is, I see at least one feature severely degrading the drop-in capability of credit card replacement - RBF - and the lack of scaling severely jeopardizing, not to say ultimately removing, the profitability in replacing credit cards.
What I see is instead engineering for the sake of engineering. The question of "who's the customer?" seems to have gotten lost in the process. While it's arguable that there's no customer as such in an open source project, there's nevertheless an importance in understanding where the front bowling pins are for a disruptive technology like this - and it's certainly not in the one-time initialization time of starting up a new node. I'd argue that the front bowling pins instead are the three use cases I listed above, and would love to see a stronger focus on tangible use cases moving forward even if people disagree with my choice of cases.
Onward and upward. Bitcoin will recover and move on. Let's learn from this experience.
submitted by Falkvinge to btc [link] [comments]

Subreddit Stats: btc posts from 2019-05-28 to 2019-06-07 10:40 PDT

Period: 10.34 days
Submissions Comments
Total 850 14116
Rate (per day) 82.22 1245.55
Unique Redditors 440 1828
Combined Score 26564 50495

Top Submitters' Top Submissions

  1. 3690 points, 33 submissions: MemoryDealers
    1. Brains..... (420 points, 94 comments)
    2. The first trade has already happened on Local.bitcoin.com! (193 points, 67 comments)
    3. China is already leading the way with the most trades done on local.bitcoin.com, followed by India. We really are helping free the world! (192 points, 58 comments)
    4. More than 100 BCH has been raised in just a few days to help support BCH protocol development! (180 points, 63 comments)
    5. The Bitcoin Cash Protocol Development Fund has already raised more than 10% of its goal from 467 separate transactions!!! (180 points, 58 comments)
    6. Local.bitcoin.com (159 points, 80 comments)
    7. The BCH miners are good guy heroes! (152 points, 161 comments)
    8. The Bitcoin.com YouTube channel just pased 25K subscribers (147 points, 19 comments)
    9. Ways to trigger a BTC maximalist: Remind them that because they didn't increase the block size, fees will eventually climb to dumb levels again. This will put brakes on it's bull trend, and funnel cash into alts instead. (141 points, 107 comments)
    10. Why more and more people are switching from BTC to BCH (137 points, 193 comments)
  2. 1561 points, 20 submissions: money78
    1. "Not a huge @rogerkver fan and never really used $BCH. But he wiped up the floor with @ToneVays in Malta, and even if you happen to despise BCH, it’s foolish and shortsighted not to take these criticisms seriously. $BTC is very expensive and very slow." (261 points, 131 comments)
    2. Jonathan Toomim: "At 32 MB, we can handle something like 30% of Venezuela's population using BCH 2x per day. Even if that's all BCH ever achieved, I'd call that a resounding success; that's 9 million people raised out of poverty. Not a bad accomplishment for a hundred thousand internet geeks." (253 points, 180 comments)
    3. CEO of CoinEx: "CoinEx already add SLP token solution support. The first SLP token will list on CoinEx Soon. Also welcome apply to list SLP tokens on CoinEx." (138 points, 18 comments)
    4. "While Ethereum smart contracts have a lot more functionality than those in Bitcoin Cash, with the upcoming CashScript we've tried to replicate a big part of the workflow, hopefully making it easier for developers to engage with both of these communities. Check it out 🚀" (120 points, 35 comments)
    5. Bitcoin ABC 0.19.7 is now available! This release includes RPC and wallet improvements, and a new transaction index database. See the release notes for details. (104 points, 5 comments)
    6. Vin Armani: "Huge shout out to the @BitcoinCom wallet team! I just heard from a very authoritative source that multi-output BIP 70 support has been successfully tested and will be in a near-term future release. Now, the most popular BCH wallet will support Non-Custodial Financial Services!" (88 points, 23 comments)
    7. BSV folks: Anything legal is good...We want our coin to be legal! (79 points, 66 comments)
    8. BCH fees vs BTC fees (78 points, 85 comments)
    9. "This @CashShuffle on BCH looks awesome. The larger blocksize on BCH allows for cheap on-chain transactions. @CashShuffle leverages this in a very creative way to gain privacy. Ignoring the tribalism, it's fascinating to watch BCH vs. BTC compete in the marketplace." (77 points, 3 comments)
    10. Bitcoin Cash the best that bitcoin can be...🔥💪 (60 points, 9 comments)
  3. 1413 points, 18 submissions: Egon_1
    1. "The claim “Bitcoin was purpose-built to first be a Store of Value” is false. In this article I've posting every single instance I could find across everything Satoshi ever wrote related to store of value or payments. It wasn't even close. Payments win." (299 points, 82 comments)
    2. The Art of Rewriting History ... File this under Deception! (184 points, 69 comments)
    3. Today's Next Block Fee: BTC ($3.55) and BCH ($0.00). Enjoy! (120 points, 101 comments)
    4. Andreas Brekken: "The maxi thought leaders have a ⚡in their username but can't describe a bidirectional payment channel. Ask questions? They attack you until you submit or leave. Leave? You're a scammer....." (115 points, 11 comments)
    5. Tone Vays: "So I will admit, I did terrible in the Malta Debate vs @rogerkver [...]" (107 points, 95 comments)
    6. This Week in Bitcoin Cash (96 points, 10 comments)
    7. “There was no way to win that debate. Roger came armed with too much logic and facts.” (78 points, 1 comment)
    8. BTC supporter enters a coffee shop: "I like to pay $3 premium security fee for my $4 coffee ☕️" (64 points, 100 comments)
    9. Matt Corallo: "... the worst parts of Bitcoin culture reliably come from folks like @Excellion and a few of the folks he has hired at @Blockstream ..." (63 points, 43 comments)
    10. Angela Walch: "Is there a resource that keeps an up-to-date list of those who have commit access to the Bitcoin Core Github repo & who pays them for their work on Bitcoin? In the past, getting this info has required digging. Is that still the case? " (57 points, 5 comments)
  4. 852 points, 11 submissions: jessquit
    1. PSA: BTC not working so great? Bitcoin upgraded in 2017. The upgraded Bitcoin is called BCH. There's still time to upgrade! (185 points, 193 comments)
    2. Nobody uses Bitcoin Cash (178 points, 89 comments)
    3. Yes, Bitcoin was always supposed to be gold 2.0: digital gold that you could use like cash, so you could spend it anywhere without needing banks and gold notes to make it useful. So why is Core trying to turn it back into gold 1.0? (112 points, 85 comments)
    4. This interesting conversation between Jonathan Toomim and @_drgo where jtoomim explains how large blocks actually aren't a centralization driver (89 points, 36 comments)
    5. This Twitter conversation between Jonathan Toomim and Adam Back is worth a read (75 points, 15 comments)
    6. In October 2010 Satoshi proposed a hard fork block size upgrade. This proposed upgrade was a fundamental factor in many people's decision to invest, myself included. BCH implemented this upgrade. BTC did not. (74 points, 41 comments)
    7. what do the following have in common: Australia, Canada, USA, Hong Kong, Jamaica, Liberia, Namibia, New Zealand, Singapore, Taiwan, Caribbean Netherlands, East Timor, Ecuador, El Salvador, the Federated States of Micronesia, the Marshall Islands, Palau, Zimbabwe (47 points, 20 comments)
    8. Core myth dispelled: how Bitcoin offers sovereignty (45 points, 65 comments)
    9. Satoshi's Speedbump: how Bitcoin's goldlike scarcity helps address scaling worries (25 points, 9 comments)
    10. Greater Fool Theory (14 points, 13 comments)
  5. 795 points, 7 submissions: BitcoinXio
    1. Erik Voorhees on Twitter: “I wonder if you realize that if Bitcoin didn’t work well as a payment system in the early days it likely would not have taken off. Many (most?) people found the concept of instant borderless payments captivating and inspiring. “Just hold this stuff” not sufficient.” (297 points, 68 comments)
    2. On Twitter: “PSA: The Lightning Network is being heavily data mined right now. Opening channels allows anyone to cluster your wallet and associate your keys with your IP address.” (226 points, 102 comments)
    3. Shocking (not): Blockstream has had a hard time getting business due to their very bad reputation (73 points, 25 comments)
    4. While @PeterMcCormack experiments with his #LightningNetwork bank, waiting over 20 seconds to make a payment, real P2P #Bitcoin payments have already arrived on #BitcoinCash. (66 points, 94 comments)
    5. This is what we’re up against. Mindless sheep being brain washed and pumping Bitcoin (BTC) as gold to try to make a buck. (56 points, 29 comments)
    6. Tuur Demeester: “At full maturity, using the Bitcoin blockchain will be as rare and specialized as chartering an oil tanker.” (54 points, 61 comments)
    7. ‪Bitcoin Cash 101: What Happens When We Decentralize Money? ‬ (23 points, 2 comments)
  6. 720 points, 2 submissions: InMyDayTVwasBooks
    1. A Reminder Why You Shouldn’t Use Google. (619 points, 214 comments)
    2. 15 Years Ago VS. Today: How Tech Scales (101 points, 53 comments)
  7. 485 points, 15 submissions: JonyRotten
    1. Cashscript Is Coming, Bringing Ethereum-Like Smart Contracts to Bitcoin Cash (96 points, 6 comments)
    2. Localbitcoins Removes In-Person Cash Trades Forcing Traders to Look Elsewhere (86 points, 26 comments)
    3. Bitcoin.com's Local Bitcoin Cash Marketplace Is Now Open for Trading (48 points, 22 comments)
    4. Report Insists 'Bitcoin Was Not Purpose-Built to First Be a Store of Value' (48 points, 8 comments)
    5. BCH Businesses Launch Development Fund for Bitcoin Cash (36 points, 1 comment)
    6. Another Aspiring Satoshi Copyrights the Bitcoin Whitepaper (31 points, 0 comments)
    7. Bitcoin Cash and SLP-Fueled Badger Wallet Launches for iOS (27 points, 0 comments)
    8. Bitcoin Mining With Solar: Less Risky and More Profitable Than Selling to the Grid (26 points, 0 comments)
    9. Former Mt Gox CEO Mark Karpeles Announces New Blockchain Startup (25 points, 25 comments)
    10. Mixing Service Bitcoin Blender Quits After Bestmixer Takedown (23 points, 7 comments)
  8. 426 points, 2 submissions: btcCore_isnt_Bitcoin
    1. Ponder the power of propaganda, Samson Mow, Adam Back and Greg Maxwell all know how import control of bitcoin is. (394 points, 98 comments)
    2. How many Bitcoin Core supporters does it take to change a light bulb? (32 points, 35 comments)
  9. 369 points, 3 submissions: where-is-satoshi
    1. Currently you must buy 11,450 coffees on a single Lightning channel to match the payment efficiency of Bitcoin BCH - you will also need to open an LN channel with at least $47,866 (230 points, 173 comments)
    2. North Queensland's Beauty Spot finds Bitcoin BCH a thing of beauty (74 points, 6 comments)
    3. Can't start the day without a BCHinno (65 points, 9 comments)
  10. 334 points, 5 submissions: AD1AD
    1. You Can Now Send Bitcoin Cash to Mobile Phones in Electron Cash Using Cointext! (132 points, 32 comments)
    2. Merchants are Dropping Multi-Coin PoS for One Cryptocurrency: Bitcoin Cash (73 points, 21 comments)
    3. A Stellar Animated Video from CoinSpice Explaining how CashShuffle Works Under the Hood! (67 points, 10 comments)
    4. If you haven't seen the "Shit Bitcoin Cash Fanatics Say" videos from Scott Rose (The Inspirational Nerd), YOU NEED TO DO IT NOWWW (50 points, 7 comments)
    5. New Video from Bitcoin Out Loud: "Can You Store Data on the Bitcoin Blockchain?" (Spoiler: Not really.) (12 points, 10 comments)
  11. 332 points, 6 submissions: eyeofpython
    1. I believe the BCH denomination is the best (in contrast to bits, cash and sats), if used with eight digits & spaces: 0.001 234 00 BCH. This way both the BCH and the satoshi amount is immediately clear. Once the value of a satoshi gets close to 1¢, the dot can simply be dropped. (112 points, 41 comments)
    2. Only after writing more BCH Script I realized how insanely usefull all the new opcodes are — CDS and those activated/added back in May '18. Kudos to the developers! (104 points, 22 comments)
    3. CashProof is aready so awesome it can formally prove all optimizations Spedn uses, except one. Great news for BCH smart contracts! (51 points, 6 comments)
    4. Proposal for a new opcode: OP_REVERSE (43 points, 55 comments)
    5. My response on your guy's critisism of OP_REVERSE and the question of why the SLP protocol (and others) don't simply switch to little endian (20 points, 25 comments)
    6. random post about quantum physics (both relevant and irrelevant for Bitcoin at the same time) (2 points, 11 comments)
  12. 322 points, 6 submissions: unitedstatian
    1. BCH is victim to one of the biggest manipulation campaigns in social media: Any mention of BCH triggered users instantly to spam "BCASH".. until BSV which is a BCH fork and almost identical to it pre-November fork popped out of nowhere and suddenly social media is spammed with pro-BSV posts. (131 points, 138 comments)
    2. LocalBitcoins just banned cash. It really only goes to show everything in the BTC ecosystem is compromised. (122 points, 42 comments)
    3. The new narrative of the shills who moved to promoting bsv: Bitcoin was meant to be government-friendly (33 points, 138 comments)
    4. Hearn may have been the only sober guy around (21 points, 29 comments)
    5. PSA: The economical model of the Lightning Network is unsound. The LN will support different coins which will be interconnected and since the LN tokens will be transacted instead of the base coins backing them up their value will be eroded over time. (14 points, 8 comments)
    6. DARPA-Funded Study Looks at How Crypto Chats Spread on Reddit (1 point, 0 comments)
  13. 313 points, 8 submissions: CreativeName44
    1. Venezuela Hidden Bitcoin Cash paper wallet claimed with 0.17468 BCH! Congrats to the one who found it! (80 points, 0 comments)
    2. Alright BCH Redditors, Let's make some HUGE noise!! Announcing The NBA finals Toronto Raptors Hidden BCH Wallet!! (60 points, 9 comments)
    3. FindBitcoinCash gaining traction around the world - Calling out to Bitcoin Cashers to join the fun!! (41 points, 0 comments)
    4. The Toronto Raptors Bitcoin Cash Wallet has been hidden: Address qz72j9e906g7pes769yp8d4ltdmh4ajl9vf76pj0v9 (PLS RT - Some local media tagged on it) (39 points, 0 comments)
    5. This is the next BitcoinCash wallet that is going to be hidden, hopefully REALLY soon! (36 points, 13 comments)
    6. Bitcoin Cash Meetups From Around the World added to FindBitcoinCash (25 points, 0 comments)
    7. FindBitcoinCash Wallets in other languages English/Spanish/Lithuanian/Swedish/Korean (20 points, 18 comments)
    8. Thank you for a great article!! (12 points, 0 comments)
  14. 312 points, 1 submission: scriberrr
    1. WHY? (312 points, 49 comments)
  15. 311 points, 4 submissions: Anenome5
    1. Libertarian sub GoldandBlack is hosting a free, live online workshop about how to setup and use Electron Cash on Sat 1st June via discord, including how to use Cashshuffle, with a Q&A session to follow. All are invited! (119 points, 40 comments)
    2. For anyone who still hasn't seen this, here is Peter Rizun and Andrew Stone presenting their research on how to do 1 gigabyte blocks, all the way back in 2017 at the Scaling Bitcoin Conference. The BTC camp has known we can scale bitcoin on-chain for years, they just don't want to hear it. (92 points, 113 comments)
    3. @ the trolls saying "No one uses Bitcoin Cash", let's look at the last 60 blocks... (72 points, 84 comments)
    4. Research Reveals Feasibility of 1TB Blocks, 7M Transactions per Second (28 points, 22 comments)
  16. 293 points, 2 submissions: BeijingBitcoins
    1. /Bitcoin mods are censoring posts that explain why BitPay has to charge an additional fee when accepting BTC payments (216 points, 110 comments)
    2. Meetups and adoption don't just happen organically, but are the result of the hard work of passionate community members. There are many others out there but these girls deserve some recognition! (77 points, 9 comments)
  17. 282 points, 1 submission: EddieFrmDaBlockchain
    1. LEAKED: Attendee List for Buffet Charity Lunch (282 points, 98 comments)
  18. 273 points, 4 submissions: HostFat
    1. Breakdown of all Satoshi’s Writings Proves Bitcoin not Built Primarily as Store of Value (159 points, 64 comments)
    2. Just to remember - When you are afraid that the market can go against you, use the state force. (48 points, 5 comments)
    3. CypherPoker.JS v0.5.0 - P2P Poker - Bitcoin Cash support added! (35 points, 3 comments)
    4. Feature request as standard for all bch mobile wallets (31 points, 12 comments)
  19. 262 points, 3 submissions: CaptainPatent
    1. Lightning Network capacity takes a sudden dive well below 1k BTC after passing that mark back in March. (97 points, 149 comments)
    2. Yeah, how is it fair that Bitpay is willing to eat a $0.0007 transaction fee and not a $2+ transaction fee?! (89 points, 59 comments)
    3. BTC Fees amplified today by last night's difficulty adjustment. Current (peak of day) next-block fees are testing new highs. (76 points, 59 comments)
  20. 262 points, 1 submission: Badrush
    1. Now I understand why Bitcoin Developers hate on-chain solutions like increasing block sizes. (262 points, 100 comments)

Top Commenters

  1. jessquit (2337 points, 242 comments)
  2. LovelyDay (1191 points, 160 comments)
  3. Ant-n (1062 points, 262 comments)
  4. MemoryDealers (977 points, 62 comments)
  5. jtoomim (880 points, 108 comments)
  6. 500239 (841 points, 142 comments)
  7. jonald_fyookball (682 points, 86 comments)
  8. ShadowOfHarbringer (672 points, 110 comments)
  9. money78 (660 points, 41 comments)
  10. playfulexistence (632 points, 76 comments)
  11. Bagatell_ (586 points, 72 comments)
  12. Big_Bubbler (552 points, 196 comments)
  13. homopit (551 points, 79 comments)
  14. Anenome5 (543 points, 130 comments)
  15. WippleDippleDoo (537 points, 111 comments)
  16. MobTwo (530 points, 52 comments)
  17. FalltheBanks3301 (483 points, 87 comments)
  18. btcfork (442 points, 115 comments)
  19. chainxor (428 points, 71 comments)
  20. eyeofpython (425 points, 78 comments)

Top Submissions

  1. A Reminder Why You Shouldn’t Use Google. by InMyDayTVwasBooks (619 points, 214 comments)
  2. Brains..... by MemoryDealers (420 points, 94 comments)
  3. Ponder the power of propaganda, Samson Mow, Adam Back and Greg Maxwell all know how import control of bitcoin is. by btcCore_isnt_Bitcoin (394 points, 98 comments)
  4. WHY? by scriberrr (312 points, 49 comments)
  5. "The claim “Bitcoin was purpose-built to first be a Store of Value” is false. In this article I've posting every single instance I could find across everything Satoshi ever wrote related to store of value or payments. It wasn't even close. Payments win." by Egon_1 (299 points, 82 comments)
  6. Erik Voorhees on Twitter: “I wonder if you realize that if Bitcoin didn’t work well as a payment system in the early days it likely would not have taken off. Many (most?) people found the concept of instant borderless payments captivating and inspiring. “Just hold this stuff” not sufficient.” by BitcoinXio (297 points, 68 comments)
  7. LEAKED: Attendee List for Buffet Charity Lunch by EddieFrmDaBlockchain (282 points, 98 comments)
  8. Now I understand why Bitcoin Developers hate on-chain solutions like increasing block sizes. by Badrush (262 points, 100 comments)
  9. "Not a huge @rogerkver fan and never really used $BCH. But he wiped up the floor with @ToneVays in Malta, and even if you happen to despise BCH, it’s foolish and shortsighted not to take these criticisms seriously. $BTC is very expensive and very slow." by money78 (261 points, 131 comments)
  10. Jonathan Toomim: "At 32 MB, we can handle something like 30% of Venezuela's population using BCH 2x per day. Even if that's all BCH ever achieved, I'd call that a resounding success; that's 9 million people raised out of poverty. Not a bad accomplishment for a hundred thousand internet geeks." by money78 (253 points, 180 comments)

Top Comments

  1. 109 points: mossmoon's comment in Now I understand why Bitcoin Developers hate on-chain solutions like increasing block sizes.
  2. 104 points: _degenerategambler's comment in Nobody uses Bitcoin Cash
  3. 96 points: FreelanceForCoins's comment in A Reminder Why You Shouldn’t Use Google.
  4. 94 points: ThomasZander's comment in "Not a huge @rogerkver fan and never really used $BCH. But he wiped up the floor with @ToneVays in Malta, and even if you happen to despise BCH, it’s foolish and shortsighted not to take these criticisms seriously. $BTC is very expensive and very slow."
  5. 91 points: cryptotrillionaire's comment in The Art of Rewriting History ... File this under Deception!
  6. 87 points: tjonak's comment in A Reminder Why You Shouldn’t Use Google.
  7. 86 points: money78's comment in Tone Vays: "So I will admit, I did terrible in the Malta Debate vs @rogerkver [...]"
  8. 83 points: discoltk's comment in "Not a huge @rogerkver fan and never really used $BCH. But he wiped up the floor with @ToneVays in Malta, and even if you happen to despise BCH, it’s foolish and shortsighted not to take these criticisms seriously. $BTC is very expensive and very slow."
  9. 79 points: jessquit's comment in Ways to trigger a Shitcoin influencer Part 1: Remind them that’s it’s very likely they got paid to shill fake Bitcoin to Noobs
  10. 78 points: PaladinInc's comment in The BCH miners are good guy heroes!
Generated with BBoe's Subreddit Stats
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Greg Maxwell /u/nullc (CTO of Blockstream) has sent me two private messages in response to my other post today (where I said "Chinese miners can only win big by following the market - not by following Core/Blockstream."). In response to his private messages, I am publicly posting my reply, here:

Note:
Greg Maxell nullc sent me 2 short private messages criticizing me today. For whatever reason, he seems to prefer messaging me privately these days, rather than responding publicly on these forums.
Without asking him for permission to publish his private messages, I do think it should be fine for me to respond to them publicly here - only quoting 3 phrases from them, namely: "340GB", "paid off", and "integrity" LOL.
There was nothing particularly new or revealing in his messages - just more of the same stuff we've all heard before. I have no idea why he prefers responding to me privately these days.
Everything below is written by me - I haven't tried to upload his 2 PMs to me, since he didn't give permission (and I didn't ask). The only stuff below from his 2 PMs is the 3 phrases already mentioned: "340GB", "paid off", and "integrity". The rest of this long wall of text is just my "open letter to Greg."
TL;DR: The code that maximally uses the available hardware and infrastructure will win - and there is nothing Core/Blockstream can do to stop that. Also, things like the Berlin Wall or the Soviet Union lasted for a lot longer than people expected - but, conversely, the also got swept away a lot faster than anyone expected. The "vote" for bigger blocks is an ongoing referendum - and Classic is running on 20-25% of the network (and can and will jump up to the needed 75% very fast, when investors demand it due to the inevitable "congestion crisis") - which must be a massive worry for Greg/Adam/Austin and their backers from the Bilderberg Group. The debate will inevitably be decided in favor of bigger blocks - simply because the market demands it, and the hardware / infrastructure supports it.
Hello Greg Maxwell nullc (CTO of Blockstream) -
Thank you for your private messages in response to my post.
I respect (most of) your work on Bitcoin, but I think you were wrong on several major points in your messages, and in your overall economic approach to Bitcoin - as I explain in greater detail below:
Correcting some inappropriate terminology you used
As everybody knows, Classic or Unlimited or Adaptive (all of which I did mention specifically in my post) do not support "340GB" blocks (which I did not mention in my post).
It is therefore a straw-man for you to claim that big-block supporters want "340GB" blocks. Craig Wright may want that - but nobody else supports his crazy posturing and ridiculous ideas.
You should know that what actual users / investors (and Satoshi) actually do want, is to let the market and the infrastructure decide on the size of actual blocks - which could be around 2 MB, or 4 MB, etc. - gradually growing in accordance with market needs and infrastructure capabilities (free from any arbitrary, artificial central planning and obstructionism on the part of Core/Blockstream, and its investors - many of whom have a vested interest in maintaining the current debt-backed fiat system).
You yourself (nullc) once said somewhere that bigger blocks would probably be fine - ie, they would not pose a decentralization risk. (I can't find the link now - maybe I'll have time to look for it later.) I found the link:
https://np.reddit.com/btc/comments/43mond/even_a_year_ago_i_said_i_though_we_could_probably/
I am also surprised that you now seem to be among those making unfounded insinuations that posters such as myself must somehow be "paid off" - as if intelligent observers and participants could not decide on their own, based on the empirical evidence, that bigger blocks are needed, when the network is obviously becoming congested and additional infrastructure is obviously available.
Random posters on Reddit might say and believe such conspiratorial nonsense - but I had always thought that you, given your intellectual abilities, would have been able to determine that people like me are able to arrive at supporting bigger blocks quite entirely on our own, based on two simple empirical facts, ie:
  • the infrastructure supports bigger blocks now;
  • the market needs bigger blocks now.
In the present case, I will simply assume that you might be having a bad day, for you to erroneously and groundlessly insinuate that I must be "paid off" in order to support bigger blocks.
Using Occam's Razor
The much simpler explanation is that bigger-block supporters believe will get "paid off" from bigger gains for their investment in Bitcoin.
Rational investors and users understand that bigger blocks are necessary, based on the apparent correlation (not necessarily causation!) between volume and price (as mentioned in my other post, and backed up with graphs).
And rational network capacity planners (a group which you should be in - but for some mysterious reason, you're not) also understand that bigger blocks are necessary, and quite feasible (and do not pose any undue "centralization risk".)
As I have been on the record for months publicly stating, I understand that bigger blocks are necessary based on the following two objective, rational reasons:
  • because I've seen the graphs; and
  • because I've seen the empirical research in the field (from guys like Gavin and Toomim) showing that the network infrastructure (primarily bandwidth and latency - but also RAM and CPU) would also support bigger blocks now (I believe they showed that 3-4MB blocks would definitely work fine on the network now - possibly even 8 MB - without causing undue centralization).
Bigger-block supporters are being objective; smaller-block supporters are not
I am surprised that you no longer talk about this debate in those kind of objective terms:
  • bandwidth, latency (including Great Firewall of China), RAM, CPU;
  • centralization risk
Those are really the only considerations which we should be discussing in this debate - because those are the only rational considerations which might justify the argument for keeping 1 MB.
And yet you, and Adam Back adam3us, and your company Blockstream (financed by the Bilderberg Group, which has significant overlap with central banks and the legacy, debt-based, violence-backed fiat money system that has been running and slowing destroying our world) never make such objective, technical arguments anymore.
And when you make unfounded conspiratorial, insulting insinuations saying people who disagree with you on the facts must somehow be "paid off", then you are now talking like some "nobody" on Reddit - making wild baseless accusations that people must be "paid off" to support bigger blocks, something I had always thought was "beneath" you.
Instead, Occams's Razor suggests that people who support bigger blocks are merely doing so out of:
  • simple, rational investment policy; and
  • simple, rational capacity planning.
At this point, the burden is on guys like you (nullc) to explain why you support a so-called scaling "roadmap" which is not aligned with:
  • simple, rational investment policy; and
  • simple, rational capacity planning
The burden is also on guys like you to show that you do not have a conflict of interest, due to Blockstream's highly-publicized connections (via insurance giant AXA - whose CED is also the Chairman of the Bilderberg Group; and companies such as the "Big 4" accounting firm PwC) to the global cartel of debt-based central banks with their infinite money-printing.
In a nutshell, the argument of big-block supporters is simple:
If the hardware / network infrastructure supports bigger blocks (and it does), and if the market demands it (and it does), then we certainly should use bigger blocks - now.
You have never provided a counter-argument to this simple, rational proposition - for the past few years.
If you have actual numbers or evidence or facts or even legitimate concerns (regarding "centralization risk" - presumably your only argument) then you should show such evidence.
But you never have. So we can only assume either incompetence or malfeasance on your part.
As I have also publicly and privately stated to you many times, with the utmost of sincerity: We do of course appreciate the wealth of stellar coding skills which you bring to Bitcoin's cryptographic and networking aspects.
But we do not appreciate the obstructionism and centralization which you also bring to Bitcoin's economic and scaling aspects.
Bitcoin is bigger than you.
The simple reality is this: If you can't / won't let Bitcoin grow naturally, then the market is going to eventually route around you, and billions (eventually trillions) of investor capital and user payments will naturally flow elsewhere.
So: You can either be the guy who wrote the software to provide simple and safe Bitcoin scaling (while maintaining "reasonable" decentralization) - or the guy who didn't.
The choice is yours.
The market, and history, don't really care about:
  • which "side" you (nullc) might be on, or
  • whether you yourself might have been "paid off" (or under a non-disclosure agreement written perhaps by some investors associated the Bilderberg Group and the legacy debt-based fiat money system which they support), or
  • whether or not you might be clueless about economics.
Crypto and/or Bitcoin will move on - with or without you and your obstructionism.
Bigger-block supporters, including myself, are impartial
By the way, my two recent posts this past week on the Craig Wright extravaganza...
...should have given you some indication that I am being impartial and objective, and I do have "integrity" (and I am not "paid off" by anybody, as you so insultingly insinuated).
In other words, much like the market and investors, I don't care who provides bigger blocks - whether it would be Core/Blockstream, or Bitcoin Classic, or (the perhaps confusingly-named) "Bitcoin Unlimited" (which isn't necessarily about some kind of "unlimited" blocksize, but rather simply about liberating users and miners from being "limited" by controls imposed by any centralized group of developers, such as Core/Blockstream and the Bilderbergers who fund you).
So, it should be clear by now I don't care one way or the other about Gavin personally - or about you, or about any other coders.
I care about code, and arguments - regardless of who is providing such things - eg:
  • When Gavin didn't demand crypto proof from Craig, and you said you would have: I publicly criticized Gavin - and I supported you.
  • When you continue to impose needless obstactles to bigger blocks, then I continue to criticize you.
In other words, as we all know, it's not about the people.
It's about the code - and what the market wants, and what the infrastructure will bear.
You of all people should know that that's how these things should be decided.
Fortunately, we can take what we need, and throw away the rest.
Your crypto/networking expertise is appreciated; your dictating of economic parameters is not.
As I have also repeatedly stated in the past, I pretty much support everything coming from you, nullc:
  • your crypto and networking and game-theoretical expertise,
  • your extremely important work on Confidential Transactions / homomorphic encryption.
  • your desire to keep Bitcoin decentralized.
And I (and the network, and the market/investors) will always thank you profusely and quite sincerely for these massive contributions which you make.
But open-source code is (fortunately) à la carte. It's mix-and-match. We can use your crypto and networking code (which is great) - and we can reject your cripple-code (artificially small 1 MB blocks), throwing it where it belongs: in the garbage heap of history.
So I hope you see that I am being rational and objective about what I support (the code) - and that I am also always neutral and impartial regarding who may (or may not) provide it.
And by the way: Bitcoin is actually not as complicated as certain people make it out to be.
This is another point which might be lost on certain people, including:
And that point is this:
The crypto code behind Bitcoin actually is very simple.
And the networking code behind Bitcoin is actually also fairly simple as well.
Right now you may be feeling rather important and special, because you're part of the first wave of development of cryptocurrencies.
But if the cryptocurrency which you're coding (Core/Blockstream's version of Bitcoin, as funded by the Bilderberg Group) fails to deliver what investors want, then investors will dump you so fast your head will spin.
Investors care about money, not code.
So bigger blocks will eventually, inevitably come - simply because the market demand is there, and the infrastructure capacity is there.
It might be nice if bigger blocks would come from Core/Blockstream.
But who knows - it might actually be nicer (in terms of anti-fragility and decentralization of development) if bigger blocks were to come from someone other than Core/Blockstream.
So I'm really not begging you - I'm warning you, for your own benefit (your reputation and place in history), that:
Either way, we are going to get bigger blocks.
Simply because the market wants them, and the hardware / infrastructre can provide them.
And there is nothing you can do to stop us.
So the market will inevitably adopt bigger blocks either with or without you guys - given that the crypto and networking tech behind Bitcoin is not all that complex, and it's open-source, and there is massive pent-up investor demand for cryptocurrency - to the tune of multiple billions (or eventually trillions) of dollars.
It ain't over till the fat lady sings.
Regarding the "success" which certain small-block supports are (prematurely) gloating about, during this time when a hard-fork has not happened yet: they should bear in mind that the market has only begun to speak.
And the first thing it did when it spoke was to dump about 20-25% of Core/Blockstream nodes in a matter of weeks. (And the next thing it did was Gemini added Ethereum trading.)
So a sizable percentage of nodes are already using Classic. Despite desperate, irrelevant attempts of certain posters on these forums to "spin" the current situation as a "win" for Core - it is actually a major "fail" for Core.
Because if Core/Blocksteam were not "blocking" Bitcoin's natural, organic growth with that crappy little line of temporary anti-spam kludge-code which you and your minions have refused to delete despite Satoshi explicitly telling you to back in 2010 ("MAX_BLOCKSIZE = 1000000"), then there would be something close to 0% nodes running Classic - not 25% (and many more addable at the drop of a hat).
This vote is ongoing.
This "voting" is not like a normal vote in a national election, which is over in one day.
Unfortunately for Core/Blockstream, the "voting" for Classic and against Core is actually two-year-long referendum.
It is still ongoing, and it can rapidly swing in favor of Classic at any time between now and Classic's install-by date (around January 1, 2018 I believe) - at any point when the market decides that it needs and wants bigger blocks (ie, due to a congestion crisis).
You know this, Adam Back knows this, Austin Hill knows this, and some of your brainwashed supporters on censored forums probably know this too.
This is probably the main reason why you're all so freaked out and feel the need to even respond to us unwashed bigger-block supporters, instead of simply ignoring us.
This is probably the main reason why Adam Back feels the need to keep flying around the world, holding meetings with miners, making PowerPoint presentations in English and Chinese, and possibly also making secret deals behind the scenes.
This is also why Theymos feels the need to censor.
And this is perhaps also why your brainwashed supporters from censored forums feel the need to constantly make their juvenile, content-free, drive-by comments (and perhaps also why you evidently feel the need to privately message me your own comments now).
Because, once again, for the umpteenth time in years, you've seen that we are not going away.
Every day you get another worrisome, painful reminder from us that Classic is still running on 25% of "your" network.
And everyday get another worrisome, painful reminder that Classic could easily jump to 75% in a matter of days - as soon as investors see their $7 billion wealth starting to evaporate when the network goes into a congestion crisis due to your obstructionism and insistence on artificially small 1 MB blocks.
If your code were good enough to stand on its own, then all of Core's globetrotting and campaigning and censorship would be necessary.
But you know, and everyone else knows, that your cripple-code does not include simple and safe scaling - and the competing code (Classic, Unlimited) does.
So your code cannot stand on its own - and that's why you and your supporters feel that it's necessary to keep up the censorship and and the lies and the snark. It's shameful that a smart coder like you would be involved with such tactics.
Oppressive regimes always last longer than everyone expects - but they also also collapse faster than anyone expects.
We already have interesting historical precedents showing how grassroots resistance to centralized oppression and obstructionism tends to work out in the end. The phenomenon is two-fold:
  • The oppression usually drags on much longer than anyone expects; and
  • The liberation usually happens quite abruptly - much faster than anyone expects.
The Berlin Wall stayed up much longer than everyone expected - but it also came tumbling down much faster than everyone expected.
Examples of opporessive regimes that held on surprisingly long, and collapsed surpisingly fast, are rather common - eg, the collapse of the Berlin Wall, or the collapse of the Soviet Union.
(Both examples are actually quite germane to the case of Blockstream/Core/Theymos - as those despotic regimes were also held together by the fragile chewing gum and paper clips of denialism and censorship, and the brainwashed but ultimately complacent and fragile yes-men that inevitably arise in such an environment.)
The Berlin Wall did indeed seem like it would never come down. But the grassroots resistance against it was always there, in the wings, chipping away at the oppression, trying to break free.
And then when it did come down, it happened in a matter of days - much faster than anyone had expected.
That's generally how these things tend to go:
  • oppression and obstructionism drag on forever, and the people oppressing freedom and progress erroneously believe that Core/Blockstream is "winning" (in this case: Blockstream/Core and you and Adam and Austin - and the clueless yes-men on censored forums like r\bitcoin who mindlessly support you, and the obedient Chinese miners who, thus far, have apparently been to polite to oppose you) ;
  • then one fine day, the market (or society) mysteriously and abruptly decides one day that "enough is enough" - and the tsunami comes in and washes the oppressors away in the blink of an eye.
So all these non-entities with their drive-by comments on these threads and their premature gloating and triumphalism are irrelevant in the long term.
The only thing that really matters is investors and users - who are continually applying grassroots pressure on the network, demanding increased capacity to keep the transactions flowing (and the price rising).
And then one day: the Berlin Wall comes tumbling down - or in the case of Bitcoin: a bunch of mining pools have to switch to Classic, and they will do switch so fast it will make your head spin.
Because there will be an emergency congestion crisis where the network is causing the price to crash and threatening to destroy $7 billion in investor wealth.
So it is understandable that your supports might sometimes prematurely gloat, or you might feel the need to try to comment publicly or privately, or Adam might feel the need to jet around the world.
Because a large chunk of people have rejected your code.
And because many more can and will - and they'll do in the blink of an eye.
Classic is still out there, "waiting in the wings", ready to be installed, whenever the investors tell the miners that it is needed.
Fortunately for big-block supporters, in this "election", the polls don't stay open for just one day, like in national elections.
The voting for Classic is on-going - it runs for two years. It is happening now, and it will continue to happen until around January 1, 2018 (which is when Classic-as-an-option has been set to officially "expire").
To make a weird comparison with American presidential politics: It's kinda like if either Hillary or Trump were already in office - but meanwhile there was also an ongoing election (where people could change their votes as often as they want), and the day when people got fed up with the incompetent incumbent, they can throw them out (and install someone like Bernie instead) in the blink of an eye.
So while the inertia does favor the incumbent (because people are lazy: it takes them a while to become informed, or fed up, or panicked), this kind of long-running, basically never-ending election favors the insurgent (because once the incumbent visibly screws up, the insurgent gets adopted - permanently).
Everyone knows that Satoshi explicitly defined Bitcoin to be a voting system, in and of itself. Not only does the network vote on which valid block to append next to the chain - the network also votes on the very definition of what a "valid block" is.
Go ahead and re-read the anonymous PDF that was recently posted on the subject of how you are dangerously centralizing Bitcoin by trying to prevent any votes from taking place:
https://np.reddit.com/btc/comments/4hxlquhoh_a_warning_regarding_the_onset_of_centralised/
The insurgent (Classic, Unlimited) is right (they maximally use available bandwidth) - while the incumbent (Core) is wrong (it needlessly throws bandwidth out the window, choking the network, suppressing volume, and hurting the price).
And you, and Adam, and Austin Hill - and your funders from the Bilderberg Group - must be freaking out that there is no way you can get rid of Classic (due to the open-source nature of cryptocurrency and Bitcoin).
Cripple-code will always be rejected by the network.
Classic is already running on about 20%-25% of nodes, and there is nothing you can do to stop it - except commenting on these threads, or having guys like Adam flying around the world doing PowerPoints, etc.
Everything you do is irrelevant when compared against billions of dollars in current wealth (and possibly trillions more down the road) which needs and wants and will get bigger blocks.
You guys no longer even make technical arguments against bigger blocks - because there are none: Classic's codebase is 99% the same as Core, except with bigger blocks.
So when we do finally get bigger blocks, we will get them very, very fast: because it only takes a few hours to upgrade the software to keep all the good crypto and networking code that Core/Blockstream wrote - while tossing that single line of 1 MB "max blocksize" cripple-code from Core/Blockstream into the dustbin of history - just like people did with the Berlin Wall.
submitted by ydtm to btc [link] [comments]

The Toomin brothers, Bitcoin Classic's main devs are debating Core devs and trying to show them the light. It gets quite fishy at the end.

Join here: http://slack.bitcoincore.org
Start somewhere here: https://bitcoincore.slack.com/archives/general/p1453096627008444
Some extracts:
Michael Toomim [8:06 AM] Satoshi believed the only way to prevent control is to give everyone a copy of the ledger.
[8:06] Give everyone an opportunity to vote.
eric-ledger [8:06 AM] @mtoomim: I think you are delusional
Michael Toomim [8:06 AM] Give everyone an opportunity to transact.
anduck [8:06 AM] mtoomim: bitcoin classic is against that, too.
[8:06] as you very well know.(edited)
Michael Toomim [8:06 AM] We give everyone an opportunity to upgrade the protocol.
Adam Back [8:06 AM] mtoomim: do you understand why the developers of bitcoin used to propose a HF but switched to a SF once it became clear that it was possible because it is safer and faster?
Michael Toomim [8:06 AM] You can take part in bitcoin.
[8:06] You can add yourself to it.
[8:06] Express yourself on consider.it.
anduck [8:06 AM] are you a bot?
Michael Toomim [8:07 AM] Are you a bot?
dts [8:07 AM] I'm convinced, I welcome our new pot smoking master
James Hillard [8:07 AM] @opet: when did I ever refer to you as being part of the uneducated masses?
Michael Toomim [8:07 AM] Do you wanna speak bot? Bleep Bleep Bloop!
[8:07] 1010111
Adam Back [8:07 AM] opet: "it's an image and communication problem." this is agreed
Michael Toomim [8:07 AM] What's your favorite wave? Mine's triangle.
eric-ledger [8:07 AM] you sound like a cultist
anduck [8:07 AM] mtoomim: quit advertising your platform
Michael Toomim [8:07 AM] Haha I'm just stoned guys.
Adam Back [8:07 AM] lol
Michael Toomim [8:07 AM] Cultists do get stoned a lot.
[8:07] But I'm just stoned.
Adam Back [8:07 AM] mtoomim: are you serious?
Michael Toomim [8:07 AM] You're mistaking correlation with causation.
dts [8:07 AM] If any miners are here, please pay attention to @mtoomim words
Michael Toomim [8:07 AM] Yes I'm serious. Do you not believe me? Test me!
anduck [8:08 AM] mtoomim: so how much did you pay the miners? 0 or more
Michael Toomim [8:08 AM] I'd love more attention. I love attention!
[8:08] What? I ​am​ the miner!
[8:08] https://toom.im Toomim Bros. Bitcoin Mining Concern Toomim Bros. provides hosting for bitcoin mining. Our mining center is powered by some of the most wallet- and climate-friendly power in the world.
eric-ledger [8:08 AM] meltdown
anduck [8:08 AM] as stated earlier, it's a valid concern that you may have paid miners. you offered money to other to do things that people have been doing for NO money earlier.
Michael Toomim [8:08 AM] I pay myself every day.
anduck [8:08 AM] @mtoomim: did the miners get paid to express support for Classic or not?
Adam Back [8:08 AM] mtoomim: are you literally stoned? you may want to unplug for a while.
Nicolas Bacca [8:09 AM] At that point I think the best course of action is to demonstrate to the miners that segwit works well with multiple wallets and that well, one team is slightly more serious than the other one.
Michael Toomim [8:09 AM] No they didn't get paid. Duh. The miners have all the money. They are the ones who pay.
dts [8:09 AM] It is legal in Washington State as far as I know
taek [8:09 AM] @mtoomim: you keep trying to flatter us. We don't work for free. We are not impressed with the direction you are taking things and we don't feel inclined to work on your vision. Ours is in the process of being shredded to pieces, why do you think we will maintain morale and motivation?
James Hillard [8:09 AM] I hardly consider a sub MW mining operation to be much of anything at this point.
taek [8:09 AM] ugh
anduck [8:09 AM] mtoomim: thanks
Michael Toomim [8:09 AM] Yeah it's legal here. 1
Colin Delargy [8:09 AM] I don’t think I could think of something more off topic. 1
Michael Toomim [8:09 AM] @taek I don't give the vision. YOU give the vision. Come give it.
[8:09] I just create a place for you to talk and listen.
dts [8:09 AM] @mtoomim: you really aren't doing yourself any favors
Michael Toomim [8:10 AM] I'm hosting the forum.
eric-ledger [8:10 AM] this is insane
p2phash [8:10 AM] funny though
dts [8:10 AM] I hope this is saved for posterity
Adam Back [8:10 AM] mtoomim: i dont think yes. i think you should go sleep it off.
Michael Toomim [8:10 AM] This is great! I love this conversation guys!
eric-ledger [8:10 AM] doe anyone know for sure he is the real Michael Toomim?
Michael Toomim [8:10 AM] You are real fun.
dts [8:10 AM] he verified his email as the same one on Classic Slack
Michael Toomim [8:10 AM] Nobody texted me.
[8:10] :stuck_out_tongue:
gamersg [8:10 AM] mtoomim: If SW via SF increases effective block size to 2MB, why are you pushing for a 2MB HF (honest qsn)
Michael Toomim [8:10 AM] Text me a random code at +++++++++++++
Adam Back [8:11 AM] eric-ledger: oh maybe it's a look alike account.
dts [8:11 AM] why do you have an Oakland number
Michael Toomim [8:11 AM] Because the people who voted aren't pushing for it.
[8:11] I went to school at uc berkeley.
Colin Delargy [8:11 AM] content style matches https://www.reddit.com/usetoomim reddit: the front page of the internet
p2phash [8:11 AM] @gamersg: not a full 2mb of transactions really is it?
anduck [8:11 AM] gamersg: that's been asked like hundred times. he refuses to answer.
taek [8:11 AM] I do feel like I've been properly baited. @mtoomim: my vision is a cryptocurrency that is immune to political influence. That vision does not seem to be present in the current ecosystem
Michael Toomim [8:11 AM] @dts are you nearby?
dts [8:11 AM] that explains the pot
Michael Toomim [8:12 AM] haha Yeah it does.
[8:12] And acid
judahmu [8:12 AM] we liked dts better as luke-jr
dts [8:12 AM] I'm flattered
James Hillard [8:12 AM] Is this what future bitcoin development conversations are going to look like? 1
dts [8:12 AM] Yes he is the real deal, not a troll, kind of unbelievable
James Hillard [8:13 AM] This is insane
oneeman [8:13 AM] tomorrow is a holiday
taek [8:13 AM] :}
dts [8:13 AM] He did go to UC berkeley and slack sends you an email to verify it
oneeman [8:13 AM] as good a day as any to cut loose, I guess
drdave [8:14 AM] joined #general
Adam Back [8:15 AM] are we sure mtoomim is actually michael toomim? wasnt it toomim before?
anduck [8:15 AM] it's michael toomim
[8:15] changed nick to mtoomim
Brian Hoffman [8:15 AM] What a cluster fuck
Michael Toomim [8:15 AM] @taek There are politics in every social system. Our job is to improve them. That's why we made Bitcoin Classic. The problem with politics is that they get in the way, and so make political communication more efficient, so it gets out of the way.
Adam Back [8:16 AM] anduck: well he said that, but what if that itself was a spoof?
anduck [8:16 AM] @adam3us: the email looks legit, at least
Adam Back [8:16 AM] mtoomim: what hashrate does toom.im have?
Michael Toomim [8:16 AM] We are the first forum that can visualize over 1,000 opinions on a single page.
dts [8:16 AM] less than 1%
Michael Toomim [8:16 AM] We scale.
Adam Back [8:16 AM] so email him a code see if he can answer it?
Luke-Jr [8:16 AM] what's the invite link again?
Michael Toomim [8:16 AM] @adam3us: We only have a small amount. Most of our capacity goes to customers who host with us.
Adam Back [8:16 AM] slack.bitcoincore.org
Michael Toomim [8:17 AM] We have 750 kW of power capacity.
dino_m [8:17 AM] joined #general
dts [8:17 AM] @btcdrak: should put it on the front page of bitcoincore.org :confused:
Luke-Jr [8:17 AM] thx. what is the share rules for this link?
dts [8:17 AM] it's posted already on there just hidden behind "contribute"
Luke-Jr [8:17 AM] k, so public
Michael Toomim [8:17 AM] So you can multiply 750 kW by the average efficiency to get the hashrate at our facility.
kang [8:18 AM] joined #general
Michael Toomim [8:18 AM] Text me it's faster.
Patrick Strateman [8:18 AM] @mtoomim: well divide by x and carry the... <1%
oneeman [8:18 AM] someone in ##bitcoin asked a day or two ago if maybe bitcoin classic was just a viral marketing ploy for consider.it ... 2
Michael Toomim [8:18 AM] Probably
anduck [8:19 AM] oneeman: well it certainly looks like so
[8:19] mtoomim has advertised it like 10 times in an hour
oneeman [8:19 AM] I thought the question was a joke, but now I'm not so sure
anduck [8:19 AM] and nobody still cares about it.
Michael Toomim [8:19 AM] And we're all a viral marketing campaign for bitcoin! 2
Patrick Strateman [8:19 AM] @oneeman: lold
Michael Toomim [8:19 AM] Ok what am I not answering now?
anduck [8:19 AM] mtoomim: read the log.
[8:19] please.
Michael Toomim [8:19 AM] Come on!
Adam Back [8:19 AM] mtoomim: nice. yes coincidentally i had looked at your hosting service for some miners i had a while back.
Michael Toomim [8:19 AM] It's so long
[8:19] You talk fast
[8:20] I've responded very well to everything I've been able to tackle
anduck [8:20 AM] you're already deeming others to do the btc deving work for you, don't make us read the logs you should read(edited)
Michael Toomim [8:20 AM] I want you to choose
[8:20] There are a lot of options up there
Patrick Strateman [8:20 AM] @mtoomim: Would you be OK with a world in which virtually all Bitcoin users run SPV clients and only a handful of trusted third parties operate full nodes?
alie1 [8:20 AM] joined #general
Michael Toomim [8:20 AM] You get power, you can choose what I talk about!
[8:20] Good question!
[8:21] Ok, so I need to answer this well. Give me these numbers:
  1. The percent of SPV clients
  2. The number of full nodes
[8:21] I'll give you my opinion.
James Hillard [8:21 AM] toomims hosting service is small peanuts in the scheme of things, I manage multiple MW scale large farms in multiple countries and even then have only about 1% of network hashpower
Michael Toomim [8:21 AM] Good job James!
[8:21] Congratulations!
epscy [8:22 AM] joined #general
Michael Toomim [8:22 AM] Hey can someone get Greg Maxwell? I love that guy!
Patrick Strateman [8:22 AM] @mtoomim: 100 full nodes run by say blockstream, coinbase, mit, etc etc everybody else runs spv clients
Michael Toomim [8:22 AM] I want him to work with Classic!
Adam Back [8:22 AM] mtoomim: i sent you an email to auth your slack handle here
dts [8:22 AM] yeah verify
Adam Back [8:22 AM] can you paste or type the code in
dts [8:23 AM] otherwise bravo on excellent trolling
taek [8:23 AM] @phantomcircuit: I don't think conversation with mtoomim is going to go anywhere.
Michael Toomim [8:23 AM] uploaded an image: Cool! Add Comment
dts [8:23 AM] it's listed as his email in the classic slack
Adam Back [8:23 AM] ok then. that's pretty confirmed.
Michael Toomim [8:23 AM] Fuck yeah it is!
Oliver [8:23 AM] @jameshilliard you inadvertently did so when you referred to those voting on consider.it and supporting Classic as the "uneducated masses."
After all, I didn't give up my anonymity and finally get involved with bitcoin dev in any way until Classic arrived on the scene.
There are many more exactly like me who have signed up to finally have our voices heard and votes counted. Some, like me, are incredibly sick of (and saddened) by the Core devs' seeming ignorance of the fact that it's NOT ok to completely ignore the wants of the community.
I'm here now, and I'm here to help. My greatest desire is to somehow help bring Core and Classic together with a compromise. I'd like to see collaboration and an understanding that the road map requires a lot more than Core's blessing.(edited)
Michael Toomim [8:23 AM] That's like, real!
[8:23] It'd be so hard for me to photoshop that in 50 seconds
[8:24] Photoshop sucks
[8:24] I can do better in omnigraffle
[8:24] and built-in OSX screenshotting
[8:24] @phantomcircuit: That scenario is fucked up, dude! Everybody runs an SPV client? Sounds like fucking fascist china man!
Luke-Jr [8:24 AM] considering how quickly my PR for Classic was shot down without discussion...
frankenmint [8:24 AM] joined #general
Michael Toomim [8:25 AM] I lived in china for 6 months man, it wasn't pretty with the government
[8:25] I'm so glad the chinese are finding freedom with bitcoin
eric-ledger [8:25 AM] @mtoomim: You should come back when you are not stoned; you are not helping yourself 3
Michael Toomim [8:25 AM] They need it!
Luke-Jr [8:25 AM] lol
dts [8:25 AM] uploaded an image: Here is his email listed in classic slack Add Comment Michael Toomim [8:25 AM] @eric-ledger: I'm loving this conversation!
[8:25] I'm here to help you guys!
eric-ledger [8:25 AM] well I do also love it
James Hillard [8:25 AM] @opet: I didn't mean to imply that everyone voting on there is uneducated.
Michael Toomim [8:25 AM] I want to make it easier to dev bitcoin!
eric-ledger [8:25 AM] but it may come back and bite you in the ass
Michael Toomim [8:26 AM] Haha
[8:26] That would be fun!
[8:26] Like a snake.
Patrick Strateman [8:26 AM] @mtoomim: Do you not realize that scenario is exactly the one you're moving towards with classic?
Michael Toomim [8:26 AM] Woah! No I don't!
[8:26] Please tell me how that's happening!
[8:26] How are we going to force everyone to use SPV clients?
[8:27] That means that we have to force people not to run a full node.
[8:27] Right now it's pretty easy to run a full node.
[8:27] I run one on this laptop.
[8:27] My laptop's only getting bigger and better every year.
[8:27] And the democracy cares about this!
[8:27] They won't let full nodes stop running on their laptops.
elliotolds [8:27 AM] @opet: what do you think as this (proposed earlier by someone else here) for a compromise: in April we hard fork to 2 MB, then we do segwit later in the year, maybe October or something, but whenever Core is comfortable releasing it? (sooner is fine, even along with the April HF is OK if they want it then)
Michael Toomim [8:27 AM] They want full nodes to run on their laptops!
[8:27] They want it so bad!
Patrick Strateman [8:27 AM] @mtoomim: so four or five tabs? 4
Michael Toomim [8:27 AM] I want it so bad!
[8:27] I love bitcoin on my laptop!
[8:28] It's like a girlfriend in your lap!
[8:28] Isn't it?
eric-ledger [8:28 AM] omg
Michael Toomim [8:28 AM] Who wants to relegate her to the server room?
dinbits [8:28 AM]
I'm here to help you guys! @mtoomim: Do you plan on saying anything helpful?(edited)
Michael Toomim [8:28 AM] That's for herems.
[8:28] I support sexual equality!
[8:28] @dinbits I want to be helpful! What would you like me to help you with?
jdebunt [8:28 AM] joined #general
Michael Toomim [8:28 AM] Or help other people with?
dts [8:29 AM] what he's saying is very illuminating to me 3
Michael Toomim [8:29 AM] @phantomcircuit: I once took 4 tabs and went free-diving off the coast of hawaii.
[8:29] Kapoho tide pools on the big island
[8:29] That was so great!
[8:29] I saw fish world.
[8:29] Like the clan of the little cute white fish with the red stripe that swish you left and right.
[8:29] I came up speaking in a new style. 1 1
justino [8:30 AM] joined #general
Michael Toomim [8:30 AM] Every once in a while my words would disiintegrate into strange snap crackle popping, the sounds of fish world.
[8:30] I called it a flubbergust.
[8:30] It is the moment where your spirit veers into void and disappears.
[8:30] It's when you are wrong.
[8:30] In Bitcoin, we have a problem of admitting when we're wrong.
[8:30] Because there's no data on it.
elliotolds [8:30 AM] I wonder if this is some sort of Machiavellian plot, and later Jonathan will come in here and seem like the most reasonable person in the world in comparison 3
Michael Toomim [8:30 AM] We're giving you social data.
[8:30] bitcoin.consider.it
Nathan Cook [8:30 AM] shh, this is great
Michael Toomim [8:30 AM] It tells you when you're right and wrong
[8:31] So that you can learn
[8:31] When you learn, you get better
[8:31] And you get shit done
[8:31] You can make changes to bitcoin
dts [8:31 AM] I still can't quite believe it's you even with the proof
Michael Toomim [8:31 AM] We are hardforking the blocksize limit to 2mb
[8:31] Join us.
anduck [8:31 AM] why not 6 mb?
Adam Back [8:31 AM] i think it's him
anduck [8:31 AM] it would allow more transactions
Michael Toomim [8:31 AM] @dts wanna video chat me?
Nicolas Bacca [8:31 AM] is there drug for everybody ?
dts [8:31 AM] like my mind can't make the two parts fit together
eric-ledger [8:31 AM] a selfie maybe?
Michael Toomim [8:31 AM] Guys come meet me in tawk.space. I'll be online in 5 minutes.
taek [8:31 AM] Things have gotten terribly off topic, I would like to request that people stop responding to the nonsense, and also stop encouraging it. There is more valuable conversation that is being blocked by the ridiculousness happening right now.
Michael Toomim [8:32 AM] That's https://tawk.space. Use chrome or go home.
dts [8:32 AM] let's rename this chat mtoomim's magical bus trip and make a new channel 4
kang [8:32 AM] Not before that selfie plz
Michael Toomim [8:33 AM] hahaha
jake7849 [8:33 AM] joined #general
alie1 [8:33 AM] is this a joke ?
jwade [8:34 AM] joined #general
Michael Toomim [8:34 AM] Fuck! Tawk.space is down! Karthik!!!!!!!!
[8:34] Can we make a group video chat in skype?
[8:34] Oh a hangout
submitted by bahatassafus to btc [link] [comments]

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