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Transcript of how Philip the tyrant admin of the Bitcoin Cash Telegram group called Spoice stupid, an idiot, a parrot among other insults then banned her instead of discussing Bitcoin Cash. That Telegram group is hostile, ABC/IFP shills run and follows the rBitcoin toxic censorship modus operandi.
David B., [18.10.20 01:46] https://www.reddit.com/btc/comments/jdagi3/whats_up_with_the_bchn_hypocrisy/ David B., [18.10.20 01:47] Wut x2 J Stodd, [18.10.20 01:49] [In reply to David B.] Their words are meaningless. They have no principles. Wish i could comment but bitcoinxio banned me from rbtc and never told me why David B., [18.10.20 01:59] These comments are so toxic Spoice, [18.10.20 01:59] In reality, the real continuation of Bitcoin as we all know it is what is carried on by BCHN, BU, BCHD and others Spoice, [18.10.20 02:00] ABC is changing the rules to something that is not Bitcoin Spoice, [18.10.20 02:00] anyone denying those facts is selling you snake oil Spoice, [18.10.20 02:00] If Blockstream tried to take some % to their own benefit, we would have never needed BCH in the first place Spoice, [18.10.20 02:00] everyone would have rejected them in a second J Stodd, [18.10.20 02:01] [In reply to Spoice] Bitcoin Cash is not Bitcoin to start with, so who cares? David B., [18.10.20 02:01] [ Album ] Spoice, [18.10.20 02:01] yet we have ABC trying to pull this theft and all those puppets think it's ok Spoice, [18.10.20 02:01] JSTodd that's bullshit David B., [18.10.20 02:01] Like trying to talk to a core maxi about altcoins Spoice, [18.10.20 02:01] Bitcoin Cash is the most Bitcoin out of all Bitcoins Spoice, [18.10.20 02:01] it is the continuation of what Satoshi started David B., [18.10.20 02:02] Tbh they aren't even toxic Michael Nunzio, [18.10.20 02:02] [In reply to Spoice] If the hash follows then it is Bitcoin Cash. Only if it doesn't is your claim true J Stodd, [18.10.20 02:03] [In reply to Spoice] Bitcoin is Bitcoin. Bitcoin failed to be Peer to Peer Cash, so Bitcoin Cash attempted to fix this by forking Bitcoin and attacking the root of the problem. This does not mean Bitcoin Cash is literally Bitcoin. Adopt a different argument. Sorry if you bought into that bc of Rogers rantings J Stodd, [18.10.20 02:05] Bitcoin Cash can replace Bitcoin, and if Bitcoin dies and BCH wins then sure maybe it can take its name from its grave, but they are different products, trying to say Bitcoin stopped being "Bitcoin" and became BCH is a self contradiction. Jingles, [18.10.20 02:08] Jstodd's got some good points. Jingles, [18.10.20 02:08] He's learnt so much in the last year ☺️ Spoice, [18.10.20 02:08] "Bitcoin is Bitcoin" is a false statement. BTC is just an instance of Bitcoin. Bitcoin is the set of rules defined in the whitepaper first and foremost, it is peer to peer electronic cash. BTC no longer fits that criteria. Bitcoin Cash meets them. The fork proposed by ABC also fails to meet that criteria. Therefore the continuation of Bitcoin is in whatever BU, BCHN, Flowee and others will continue. Jingles, [18.10.20 02:09] What rules were defined in the WP? Spoice, [18.10.20 02:10] Let's see which rules aren't: 1) No coinbase tax going to any centralized entity such as ABC 2) No throttling of TX throughput such as BTC Spoice, [18.10.20 02:10] therefore they both fail the simple "Is this Bitcoin?" test Spoice, [18.10.20 02:11] Finally, Michael, if you think Hash rate defines what Bitcoin is, you should stick to BTC Jingles, [18.10.20 02:11] 21 million coins isn't in the WP Jingles, [18.10.20 02:11] I asked what rules did the WP define. Spoice, [18.10.20 02:12] Because BCH failed that criteria since it forked, therefore your point is wrong Spoice, [18.10.20 02:12] https://www.metzdowd.com/pipermail/cryptography/2009-January/014994.html Spoice, [18.10.20 02:12] The announcement of the white paper included the 21 million limit, close enough Jingles, [18.10.20 02:12] HIs announcement isn't the WP Spoice, [18.10.20 02:12] show me where Satoshi said that Amaury shoudl tax the chain? Spoice, [18.10.20 02:12] Doesn't matter- close enough Jingles, [18.10.20 02:12] Bitcoin is the set of rules defined in the whitepaper first and foremost - You Jingles, [18.10.20 02:13] My ears pricked up on that comment, so I'm asking you what you meant. Spoice, [18.10.20 02:13] Correct. Changing the 21 million hard limit is still more Bitcoin than taxing the Coinbase, yet both will never ever happen. Not to Bitcoin anyway Jingles, [18.10.20 02:13] If you meant Satoj's writings pre and post WP then you should be clear about it Spoice, [18.10.20 02:13] some bastardized chain might, just not Bitcoin Jingles, [18.10.20 02:14] The closest we have to anything to indicate what is "Bitcoiness" is general things like "the longest chain" Spoice, [18.10.20 02:14] No, it is never a single thing David B., [18.10.20 02:15] REEEE Jingles, [18.10.20 02:15] trustless, no single trusted third parties, and rules can change due to incentives via consensus Spoice, [18.10.20 02:15] it is a set of common sense and experiment driven and historical relevance and initial parameters and "peer to peer electronic cash" definition indicators Spoice, [18.10.20 02:15] never a single thing Jingles, [18.10.20 02:16] [In reply to Spoice] This is like the exact opposite of what you said earlier Jingles, [18.10.20 02:16] Bitcoin is defined by the rules in the WP, I mean common sense. Jingles, [18.10.20 02:16] 🤷♂️ Spoice, [18.10.20 02:16] Nope, the rule set is defined in the white paper should never change, but I never said all rules are defined in the white paper Jingles, [18.10.20 02:16] What rules? Spoice, [18.10.20 02:16] It is a union Jingles, [18.10.20 02:17] What rules are there? Spoice, [18.10.20 02:17] Rules in the white paper + what continued to define Bitcoin thereafter J Stodd, [18.10.20 02:17] [In reply to Spoice] > "Bitcoin is Bitcoin is a false statement." Alas, if we cannot agree on the law of identity, aka A=A, then i dont understand how to hold a conversation with you using logic. > BTC is an instance of Bitcoin No, BTC is a ticker used optionally by exchanges. Other common tickers for bitcoin include XBC, XBT, BC (correct me if im wrong on any of these) > "Bitcoin is a set of rules in the whitepaper" Super hard to defend this. Theres no mention of a 21M supply cap, no blocksize limit *at all*, and it also says additional rules and incentives can be enforced (implying maybe they should). Jingles, [18.10.20 02:17] I go through this with BSVers all the time. We have no spec sheet of rules defining what Bitcoin is from Satoshi. Spoice, [18.10.20 02:18] Rules such as what defines a correct block, miners receiving the full incentive of mining it, etc Jingles, [18.10.20 02:18] The WP is a highlevel document Spoice, [18.10.20 02:18] The WP is a description of a scientific experiment Spoice, [18.10.20 02:18] if you want to start your own experiment, be my guest Jingles, [18.10.20 02:18] [In reply to Spoice] Valid tx rules aren't defined in the WP Spoice, [18.10.20 02:18] just don't try to call it Bitcoin Jingles, [18.10.20 02:19] The word majority is in the WP an awful lot wouldn't you say? Spoice, [18.10.20 02:19] Not valid TX rules, but what a proof of work block is and how it diverts the reward to the miner, etc Jingles, [18.10.20 02:20] [In reply to Spoice] and? what about BTC doesn't apply? Jingles, [18.10.20 02:20] I'm not arguing for any fork of BCH here. Spoice, [18.10.20 02:20] It no longer meets the very title of the white paper experiment, "Peer to peer electronic cash" Spoice, [18.10.20 02:20] The BTC instance of the experiment is destined to move away from the very title of the white paper Jingles, [18.10.20 02:20] It's electronic, and I use it like cash. Spoice, [18.10.20 02:20] that the maintainers even wanted to edit the white paper (Cobra and co) because of this fact J Stodd, [18.10.20 02:20] u/Spoice When did BTC stop being Bitcoin in your view? The day Amaury decided to launch the fork, before Segwit happened? If someone else launched a fork first, they would have been "the real bitcoin"? This is a game of whoever forks first becomes the real Bitcoin? What if two people launched a fork at the exact same time, maybe even with identical specs? Jingles, [18.10.20 02:21] Where did I go wrong? Jingles, [18.10.20 02:21] [In reply to Spoice] Did they? Spoice, [18.10.20 02:21] Doesn't matter if you use it today, its very technical fabric will have to move your transactions to 2nd layers and it will no longer be peer to peer electronic cash on chain Jingles, [18.10.20 02:21] peer to peer electronic cash on chain - Not in the wp Jingles, [18.10.20 02:22] We have satoj talking about HFT with sidechannels. Jingles, [18.10.20 02:22] So what? Jingles, [18.10.20 02:23] I think this is a good discussion Phil, nothing disrespectful is being said. I hope this is ok? Spoice, [18.10.20 02:23] Doesn't matter, the rule of common sense, which is closer to that title? Increasing a simple variable (Blocksize) to stay on track of the title and experiment, or introduce IOUs and Watchtowers and channels and locked BTC and that whole LN Bastardization? Which is close to the title? Jingles, [18.10.20 02:23] No one said that can't happen Michael Nunzio, [18.10.20 02:24] [In reply to Spoice] Congratulations you've made an argument which isn't an argument. Jingles, [18.10.20 02:25] The whole thing that was said was the system is based on majority rules, and incentives can be changed. Majority breaks any deadlock. David B., [18.10.20 02:25] How to kill a coin 101 Spoice, [18.10.20 02:25] Logic fails anyone who tries to claim BTC, ABC, BSV or any similar standalone experiments as Bitcoin, because of simple sanity checks and logic checks, often stemming out of common sense - If what you have moves you a single step away from what is otherwise the same old experiment which Satoshi wrote about and unleashed, you're not Bitcoin. If what you have moves you a step closer, it is Bitcoin. and so on and so forth. Phlip - Not giving away coins, [18.10.20 02:25] Wow, really fanatical almost religious statements. I guess its Sunday morning. Jingles, [18.10.20 02:27] [In reply to Spoice] There's nothing common about common sense. You point to the WP to make a point, and your point isn't in there. Spoice, [18.10.20 02:27] Throttled and you need off-chain IOUs and always-on services to function (BTC) ? Not Bitcoin. Requires permission to be used and could be centrally confiscated on the whim of the organization behind it (BSV)? Not Bitcoin. Premined (Bitcoin Gold, Diamond)? Not Bitcoin. Taxing the miners through Coinbase and changing the incentives which were at play since day 0 (ABC)? Not Bitcoin Spoice, [18.10.20 02:27] simple checks really, yet those who are set to benefit will of course be oblivious to these Phlip - Not giving away coins, [18.10.20 02:28] This whole “Bitcoin Cash is the true Bitcoin - see whitepaper” is really stupid. It also ignores the history of how Bitcoin Cash came into existence Jingles, [18.10.20 02:28] Phillip, remove anyone here that has said Bitcoin Gold was the original Bitcoin immediately Jingles, [18.10.20 02:28] ^^^^ Jingles, [18.10.20 02:29] [In reply to Phlip - Not giving away coins] It falls to pieces the moment it's questioned. Spoice, [18.10.20 02:29] It is not about "True" Bitcoin Spoice, [18.10.20 02:30] It is about the Bitcoin closest to the experiment which always was Spoice, [18.10.20 02:30] I don't care about "True" or not, they all are true Phlip - Not giving away coins, [18.10.20 02:30] [In reply to Jingles] Sorry, I hve stopped reading all the sillyness above. Will reread later Jingles, [18.10.20 02:30] [In reply to Phlip - Not giving away coins] I'm joking around 😂 Spoice, [18.10.20 02:30] but the rule of entropy says I shouldn't place my money nor effort in experiments which are set to fade eventually, because they have skewed incentives Phlip - Not giving away coins, [18.10.20 02:31] [In reply to Spoice] You get to chose that for yourself but you do not get to dictate it for others David B., [18.10.20 02:31] [In reply to Phlip - Not giving away coins] Don't read it. You will have no braincells left Spoice, [18.10.20 02:31] Bitcoin as we know it has a long track record of incentives which work Spoice, [18.10.20 02:31] I won't ever dictate it for others Spoice, [18.10.20 02:31] I only would dictate it for myself, just like how I never use BTC or BSV today, I won't use ABC tomorrow Spoice, [18.10.20 02:32] only because they're new experiments Spoice, [18.10.20 02:32] interesting, and I wish them luck Jingles, [18.10.20 02:32] "Bitcoin is Bitcoin" is a false statement - Spoice 2020 Spoice, [18.10.20 02:32] but I would rather stick to the Bitcoin I know Spoice, [18.10.20 02:32] that's all Jingles, [18.10.20 02:32] I won't ever dictate it for others - Also Spoice Phlip - Not giving away coins, [18.10.20 02:32] Bitcoin Cash came with a plan snd goals. They were clearly presented in two presentations that happened before viabtc announced they would mine with ABC software and create a coin and chain named Bitcoin Cash Spoice, [18.10.20 02:32] Yes, because he means BTC is Bitcoin, and that's a false statement Jingles, [18.10.20 02:32] How is it false? Spoice, [18.10.20 02:32] It is an instance of Bitcoin Jc Crown [ I DON'T DM PEOPLE - DON'T GIVE ME MONEY! ], [18.10.20 02:33] [In reply to Michael Nunzio] you're looking intimidatingly handsome in your new profile picture Phlip - Not giving away coins, [18.10.20 02:33] [In reply to Jc Crown [ I DON'T DM PEOPLE - DON'T GIVE ME MONEY! ]] Lol Jc Crown [ I DON'T DM PEOPLE - DON'T GIVE ME MONEY! ], [18.10.20 02:33] [In reply to J Stodd] actually a good question Spoice, [18.10.20 02:34] Anyway, those are my two cents Spoice, [18.10.20 02:34] Everyone is free to choose which experiments to pour their effort on and their money in Phlip - Not giving away coins, [18.10.20 02:34] [In reply to Spoice] You are entitled to your opinion. Spoice, [18.10.20 02:34] Andreas is publishing Lightning Network books, I mean Spoice, [18.10.20 02:34] So to each his own Phlip - Not giving away coins, [18.10.20 02:35] [In reply to Spoice] Lets leave it at that Spoice, [18.10.20 02:35] but Bitcoin as I know it continues with no Tax, and that in my opinion is BCH with no tax Phlip - Not giving away coins, [18.10.20 02:35] Ah you had to continue Phlip - Not giving away coins, [18.10.20 02:36] Good thing no tax is proposed by anyone Spoice, [18.10.20 02:35] Isn't this the Bitcoin Cash telegram? Jc Crown [ I DON'T DM PEOPLE - DON'T GIVE ME MONEY! ], [18.10.20 02:35] 😅 Spoice, [18.10.20 02:36] If I don't discuss Bitcoin Cash here, where should I? Spoice, [18.10.20 02:36] Tax, IFP, call it what you will Spoice, [18.10.20 02:36] from my perspective as a user, it's one the same J Stodd, [18.10.20 02:36] [In reply to Jc Crown [ I DON'T DM PEOPLE - DON'T GIVE ME MONEY! ]] I bet nobody will answer it, either Phlip - Not giving away coins, [18.10.20 02:37] [In reply to Spoice] Apparently btc /s David B., [18.10.20 02:37] [In reply to Spoice] As a user what do you care? Jingles, [18.10.20 02:37] Ooh, can I shill the Bitcoin room in here? Spoice, [18.10.20 02:37] Nah, I prefer quick responses and chats Spoice, [18.10.20 02:37] Reddit is broken Phlip - Not giving away coins, [18.10.20 02:37] [In reply to Jingles] Lol J Stodd, [18.10.20 02:37] [In reply to Spoice] Nobody even pays it, it just comes out of the block reward. The block reward is not sentient, it cannot be stolen from or wronged Phlip - Not giving away coins, [18.10.20 02:37] Dont push your luck 😉 Jingles, [18.10.20 02:37] [ 😀 Sticker ] Michael Nunzio, [18.10.20 02:38] [In reply to Jc Crown [ I DON'T DM PEOPLE - DON'T GIVE ME MONEY! ]] You too brother. 🙏 Jc Crown [ I DON'T DM PEOPLE - DON'T GIVE ME MONEY! ], [18.10.20 02:38] [In reply to Michael Nunzio] but mine is the same....i need new ones everyone always calls me fat because of this one Jc Crown [ I DON'T DM PEOPLE - DON'T GIVE ME MONEY! ], [18.10.20 02:38] literally if i say 1 thing to any troll anywhere first thing they say is "ok fatass" Jc Crown [ I DON'T DM PEOPLE - DON'T GIVE ME MONEY! ], [18.10.20 02:38] i blame this dumb photographer Michael Nunzio, [18.10.20 02:38] [In reply to Jc Crown [ I DON'T DM PEOPLE - DON'T GIVE ME MONEY! ]] Don't listen. Phlip - Not giving away coins, [18.10.20 02:39] u/spoice maybe write a read.cash article if you really feel you need to educate people Spoice, [18.10.20 02:39] David, as a user I believe that each new experiment carries risk with it, why should I take part in a new fork of Bitcoin which has a new set of game-theory rules which doesn't even benefit me, rather it benefits some other entity which will take 5% of any effort or economic activity I produce on this chain? They're also off-loading the risk to me as a usebuildebusiness who choose to join their experiment. Spoice, [18.10.20 02:40] Why should I take that risk while the Bitcoin I know and have known for over 10 years worked perfectly for me thus far? (BCH, that is) Jingles, [18.10.20 02:40] small fees and empty blocks? Jc Crown [ I DON'T DM PEOPLE - DON'T GIVE ME MONEY! ], [18.10.20 02:41] It will insure that a centralized group has control over development and they are by decree in the code, it's a literal take over. Phlip - Not giving away coins, [18.10.20 02:41] [In reply to Spoice] “BSV-freeze the protocol - true Bitcoin” sounds like more your thing David B., [18.10.20 02:41] [In reply to Spoice] Better run bitcoin core 0.1 Jc Crown [ I DON'T DM PEOPLE - DON'T GIVE ME MONEY! ], [18.10.20 02:41] Imagine if satoshi keyd his address in the code to be paid out of every block, but instead of paying himself started a company "Bitcoin Dev Co" Spoice, [18.10.20 02:42] Not really, BSV kills the incentives I am discussing too Phlip - Not giving away coins, [18.10.20 02:42] [In reply to Jingles] Please stay nice now Jc Crown [ I DON'T DM PEOPLE - DON'T GIVE ME MONEY! ], [18.10.20 02:42] No one would ever be able to say Bitcoin was Decentralized, Bitcoin Dev Co would get paid directly from the reward. Jingles, [18.10.20 02:42] [In reply to Phlip - Not giving away coins] "BSV: We have all the Bad Idea. On chain" Spoice, [18.10.20 02:42] The Nash equilibrium we have tested for the past 10 years will be changed with ABC, it changed with BTC and BSV too Jc Crown [ I DON'T DM PEOPLE - DON'T GIVE ME MONEY! ], [18.10.20 02:42] "Bad Solutions Verified" Spoice, [18.10.20 02:42] that game-theory set of incentives Spoice, [18.10.20 02:43] why would I want to take a risk with any of those experiments when I gain 0? David B., [18.10.20 02:43] Better run bitcoin core 0.1 Spoice, [18.10.20 02:43] Nope, you're talking technical freezing of development, that's not what I am addressing Jingles, [18.10.20 02:43] [In reply to David B.] Thats the BTC chain though Phlip - Not giving away coins, [18.10.20 02:43] [In reply to Spoice] O please share with us your background in the subject. Or are you now just parroting others Spoice, [18.10.20 02:44] BSV wants to freeze the technical development and they want a stable protocol from an API/development perspective Spoice, [18.10.20 02:44] but from an incentive ruleset perspective, they already butchered the equilibrium Bitcoin had Jc Crown [ I DON'T DM PEOPLE - DON'T GIVE ME MONEY! ], [18.10.20 02:44] [In reply to Phlip - Not giving away coins] That's one of those phrases, when you hear it you know they are just a parrot of someones propaganda. "MUH NASH EQUILIBRIUM!" David B., [18.10.20 02:44] Stable = bad? Jingles, [18.10.20 02:45] [In reply to Jc Crown [ I DON'T DM PEOPLE - DON'T GIVE ME MONEY! ]] I love you Spoice, [18.10.20 02:45] Philip, for an admin you are ought to be nicer, if you think I am parroting others you're free to think that, but to state it so bluntly in your position is just... wrong Spoice, [18.10.20 02:46] If you think the point I made is wrong, discuss it Phlip - Not giving away coins, [18.10.20 02:46] [In reply to Jingles] Maybe talk to him in DM about that?😉 Spoice, [18.10.20 02:46] not me Jingles, [18.10.20 02:46] [In reply to Phlip - Not giving away coins] working on it. Phlip - Not giving away coins, [18.10.20 02:46] [In reply to Spoice] I ought to be nicer...😂😂😂 Spoice, [18.10.20 02:47] Also, anyone who studied Bitcoin at length and its set of incentives and game-theory ruleset should know what a Nash Equilibrium is and who the players are in the Bitcoin game Phlip - Not giving away coins, [18.10.20 02:47] [In reply to Spoice] You state as fact. You get to dhow why your statements or opinions are even relevant. Spoice, [18.10.20 02:48] If it's not a fact, highlight how Spoice, [18.10.20 02:48] don't attack me Spoice, [18.10.20 02:48] prove me wrong Spoice, [18.10.20 02:48] if you fail that simple debate test David B., [18.10.20 02:48] How's that breakfast helping? Spoice, [18.10.20 02:48] you should rename from Janitor to Tyrant Jingles, [18.10.20 02:48] I'm still waiting to see the defined rules as per the wp Michael Nunzio, [18.10.20 02:49] [In reply to Spoice] Didn't know this was stand up comedy night in here. Michael Nunzio, [18.10.20 02:49] I missed the memo Phlip - Not giving away coins, [18.10.20 02:49] If I have to prove all idiots on the internet wrong I would have a hard time. You are starting to really waste everybody’s time. You state, you prove. Or you are just generating noise Phlip - Not giving away coins, [18.10.20 02:50] [In reply to Spoice] Be careful now. Michael Nunzio, [18.10.20 02:50] Noisy bugger. Phlip - Not giving away coins, [18.10.20 02:52] Getting close to just do some cleaning up. Spoice, [18.10.20 02:52] If you can't debate technical points I am making about Bitcoin Cash on a Bitcoin Cash Telegram, and within the span of 10 minutes you called me stupid, idiot, noisy and a parrot, you absolutely are a tyrant and I stand by my point: You should not be an admin here, nor anywhere actually. If you think I should be careful for the fear of you banning me, go ahead. You still fail to debate the simplest technical point and yet claim you can "but can't be bothered to". You remind me of that Thermos guy. Spoice, [18.10.20 02:53] How do people with 0 technical know how end up in these admin positions is beyond me Jingles, [18.10.20 02:53] I challenged your comments and you just changed the goal posts. Phlip - Not giving away coins, [18.10.20 02:53] [In reply to Spoice] Ok. You are not paying me and you are free to create noise elsewhere
Scaling Reddit Community Points with Arbitrum Rollup: a piece of cake
https://preview.redd.it/b80c05tnb9e51.jpg?width=2550&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=850282c1a3962466ed44f73886dae1c8872d0f31 Submitted for consideration toThe Great Reddit Scaling Bake-Off Baked by the pastry chefs atOffchain Labs Please send questions or comments to [[email protected] ](mailto:[email protected]) 1. Overview We're excited to submit Arbitrum Rollup for consideration to The Great Reddit Scaling Bake-Off. Arbitrum Rollup is the only Ethereum scaling solution that supports arbitrary smart contracts without compromising on Ethereum's security or adding points of centralization. For Reddit, this means that Arbitrum can not only scale the minting and transfer of Community Points, but it can foster a creative ecosystem built around Reddit Community Points enabling points to be used in a wide variety of third party applications. That's right -- you can have your cake and eat it too! Arbitrum Rollup isn't just Ethereum-style. Its Layer 2 transactions are byte-for-byte identical to Ethereum, which means Ethereum users can continue to use their existing addresses and wallets, and Ethereum developers can continue to use their favorite toolchains and development environments out-of-the-box with Arbitrum. Coupling Arbitrum’s tooling-compatibility with its trustless asset interoperability, Reddit not only can scale but can onboard the entire Ethereum community at no cost by giving them the same experience they already know and love (well, certainly know). To benchmark how Arbitrum can scale Reddit Community Points, we launched the Reddit contracts on an Arbitrum Rollup chain. Since Arbitrum provides full Solidity support, we didn't have to rewrite the Reddit contracts or try to mimic their functionality using an unfamiliar paradigm. Nope, none of that. We launched the Reddit contracts unmodified on Arbitrum Rollup complete with support for minting and distributing points. Like every Arbitrum Rollup chain, the chain included a bridge interface in which users can transfer Community Points or any other asset between the L1 and L2 chains. Arbitrum Rollup chains also support dynamic contract loading, which would allow third-party developers to launch custom ecosystem apps that integrate with Community Points on the very same chain that runs the Reddit contracts. 1.1 Why Ethereum Perhaps the most exciting benefit of distributing Community Points using a blockchain is the ability to seamlessly port points to other applications and use them in a wide variety of contexts. Applications may include simple transfers such as a restaurant that allows Redditors to spend points on drinks. Or it may include complex smart contracts -- such as placing Community Points as a wager for a multiparty game or as collateral in a financial contract. The common denominator between all of the fun uses of Reddit points is that it needs a thriving ecosystem of both users and developers, and the Ethereum blockchain is perhaps the only smart contract platform with significant adoption today. While many Layer 1 blockchains boast lower cost or higher throughput than the Ethereum blockchain, more often than not, these attributes mask the reality of little usage, weaker security, or both. Perhaps another platform with significant usage will rise in the future. But today, Ethereum captures the mindshare of the blockchain community, and for Community Points to provide the most utility, the Ethereum blockchain is the natural choice. 1.2 Why Arbitrum While Ethereum's ecosystem is unmatched, the reality is that fees are high and capacity is too low to support the scale of Reddit Community Points. Enter Arbitrum. Arbitrum Rollup provides all of the ecosystem benefits of Ethereum, but with orders of magnitude more capacity and at a fraction of the cost of native Ethereum smart contracts. And most of all, we don't change the experience from users. They continue to use the same wallets, addresses, languages, and tools. Arbitrum Rollup is not the only solution that can scale payments, but it is the only developed solution that can scale both payments and arbitrary smart contracts trustlessly, which means that third party users can build highly scalable add-on apps that can be used without withdrawing money from the Rollup chain. If you believe that Reddit users will want to use their Community Points in smart contracts--and we believe they will--then it makes the most sense to choose a single scaling solution that can support the entire ecosystem, eliminating friction for users. We view being able to run smart contracts in the same scaling solution as fundamentally critical since if there's significant demand in running smart contracts from Reddit's ecosystem, this would be a load on Ethereum and would itself require a scaling solution. Moreover, having different scaling solutions for the minting/distribution/spending of points and for third party apps would be burdensome for users as they'd have to constantly shuffle their Points back and forth. 2. Arbitrum at a glance Arbitrum Rollup has a unique value proposition as it offers a combination of features that no other scaling solution achieves. Here we highlight its core attributes. Decentralized. Arbitrum Rollup is as decentralized as Ethereum. Unlike some other Layer 2 scaling projects, Arbitrum Rollup doesn't have any centralized components or centralized operators who can censor users or delay transactions. Even in non-custodial systems, centralized components provide a risk as the operators are generally incentivized to increase their profit by extracting rent from users often in ways that severely degrade user experience. Even if centralized operators are altruistic, centralized components are subject to hacking, coercion, and potential liability. Massive Scaling. Arbitrum achieves order of magnitude scaling over Ethereum's L1 smart contracts. Our software currently supports 453 transactions-per-second for basic transactions (at 1616 Ethereum gas per tx). We have a lot of room left to optimize (e.g. aggregating signatures), and over the next several months capacity will increase significantly. As described in detail below, Arbitrum can easily support and surpass Reddit's anticipated initial load, and its capacity will continue to improve as Reddit's capacity needs grow. Low cost. The cost of running Arbitrum Rollup is quite low compared to L1 Ethereum and other scaling solutions such as those based on zero-knowledge proofs. Layer 2 fees are low, fixed, and predictable and should not be overly burdensome for Reddit to cover. Nobody needs to use special equipment or high-end machines. Arbitrum requires validators, which is a permissionless role that can be run on any reasonable on-line machine. Although anybody can act as a validator, in order to protect against a “tragedy of the commons” and make sure reputable validators are participating, we support a notion of “invited validators” that are compensated for their costs. In general, users pay (low) fees to cover the invited validators’ costs, but we imagine that Reddit may cover this cost for its users. See more on the costs and validator options below. Ethereum Developer Experience. Not only does Arbitrum support EVM smart contracts, but the developer experience is identical to that of L1 Ethereum contracts and fully compatible with Ethereum tooling. Developers can port existing Solidity apps or write new ones using their favorite and familiar toolchains (e.g. Truffle, Buidler). There are no new languages or coding paradigms to learn. Ethereum wallet compatibility. Just as in Ethereum, Arbitrum users need only hold keys, but do not have to store any coin history or additional data to protect or access their funds. Since Arbitrum transactions are semantically identical to Ethereum L1 transactions, existing Ethereum users can use their existing Ethereum keys with their existing wallet software such as Metamask. Token interoperability. Users can easily transfer their ETH, ERC-20 and ERC-721 tokens between Ethereum and the Arbitrum Rollup chain. As we explain in detail below, it is possible to mint tokens in L2 that can subsequently be withdrawn and recognized by the L1 token contract. Fast finality. Transactions complete with the same finality time as Ethereum L1 (and it's possible to get faster finality guarantees by trading away trust assumptions; see the Arbitrum Rollup whitepaper for details). Non-custodial. Arbitrum Rollup is a non-custodial scaling solution, so users control their funds/points and neither Reddit nor anyone else can ever access or revoke points held by users. Censorship Resistant. Since it's completely decentralized, and the Arbitrum protocol guarantees progress trustlessly, Arbitrum Rollup is just as censorship-proof as Ethereum. Block explorer. The Arbitrum Rollup block explorer allows users to view and analyze transactions on the Rollup chain. Limitations Although this is a bake-off, we're not going to sugar coat anything. Arbitrum Rollup, like any Optimistic Rollup protocol, does have one limitation, and that's the delay on withdrawals. As for the concrete length of the delay, we've done a good deal of internal modeling and have blogged about this as well. Our current modeling suggests a 3-hour delay is sufficient (but as discussed in the linked post there is a tradeoff space between the length of the challenge period and the size of the validators’ deposit). Note that this doesn't mean that the chain is delayed for three hours. Arbitrum Rollup supports pipelining of execution, which means that validators can keep building new states even while previous ones are “in the pipeline” for confirmation. As the challenge delays expire for each update, a new state will be confirmed (read more about this here). So activity and progress on the chain are not delayed by the challenge period. The only thing that's delayed is the consummation of withdrawals. Recall though that any single honest validator knows immediately (at the speed of L1 finality) which state updates are correct and can guarantee that they will eventually be confirmed, so once a valid withdrawal has been requested on-chain, every honest party knows that the withdrawal will definitely happen. There's a natural place here for a liquidity market in which a validator (or someone who trusts a validator) can provide withdrawal loans for a small interest fee. This is a no-risk business for them as they know which withdrawals will be confirmed (and can force their confirmation trustlessly no matter what anyone else does) but are just waiting for on-chain finality. 3. The recipe: How Arbitrum Rollup works For a description of the technical components of Arbitrum Rollup and how they interact to create a highly scalable protocol with a developer experience that is identical to Ethereum, please refer to the following documents: Arbitrum Rollup Whitepaper Arbitrum academic paper (describes a previous version of Arbitrum) 4. Developer docs and APIs For full details about how to set up and interact with an Arbitrum Rollup chain or validator, please refer to our developer docs, which can be found at https://developer.offchainlabs.com/. Note that the Arbitrum version described on that site is older and will soon be replaced by the version we are entering in Reddit Bake-Off, which is still undergoing internal testing before public release. 5. Who are the validators? As with any Layer 2 protocol, advancing the protocol correctly requires at least one validator (sometimes called block producers) that is honest and available. A natural question is: who are the validators? Recall that the validator set for an Arbitrum chain is open and permissionless; anyone can start or stop validating at will. (A useful analogy is to full nodes on an L1 chain.) But we understand that even though anyone can participate, Reddit may want to guarantee that highly reputable nodes are validating their chain. Reddit may choose to validate the chain themselves and/or hire third-party validators.To this end, we have begun building a marketplace for validator-for-hire services so that dapp developers can outsource validation services to reputable nodes with high up-time. We've announced a partnership in which Chainlink nodes will provide Arbitrum validation services, and we expect to announce more partnerships shortly with other blockchain infrastructure providers. Although there is no requirement that validators are paid, Arbitrum’s economic model tracks validators’ costs (e.g. amount of computation and storage) and can charge small fees on user transactions, using a gas-type system, to cover those costs. Alternatively, a single party such as Reddit can agree to cover the costs of invited validators. 6. Reddit Contract Support Since Arbitrum contracts and transactions are byte-for-byte compatible with Ethereum, supporting the Reddit contracts is as simple as launching them on an Arbitrum chain. Minting. Arbitrum Rollup supports hybrid L1/L2 tokens which can be minted in L2 and then withdrawn onto the L1. An L1 contract at address A can make a special call to the EthBridge which deploys a "buddy contract" to the same address A on an Arbitrum chain. Since it's deployed at the same address, users can know that the L2 contract is the authorized "buddy" of the L1 contract on the Arbitrum chain. For minting, the L1 contract is a standard ERC-20 contract which mints and burns tokens when requested by the L2 contract. It is paired with an ERC-20 contract in L2 which mints tokens based on whatever programmer provided minting facility is desired and burns tokens when they are withdrawn from the rollup chain. Given this base infrastructure, Arbitrum can support any smart contract based method for minting tokens in L2, and indeed we directly support Reddit's signature/claim based minting in L2. Batch minting. What's better than a mint cookie? A whole batch! In addition to supporting Reddit’s current minting/claiming scheme, we built a second minting design, which we believe outperforms the signature/claim system in many scenarios. In the current system, Reddit periodically issues signed statements to users, who then take those statements to the blockchain to claim their tokens. An alternative approach would have Reddit directly submit the list of users/amounts to the blockchain and distribute the tokens to the users without the signature/claim process. To optimize the cost efficiency of this approach, we designed an application-specific compression scheme to minimize the size of the batch distribution list. We analyzed the data from Reddit's previous distributions and found that the data is highly compressible since token amounts are small and repeated, and addresses appear multiple times. Our function groups transactions by size, and replaces previously-seen addresses with a shorter index value. We wrote client code to compress the data, wrote a Solidity decompressing function, and integrated that function into Reddit’s contract running on Arbitrum. When we ran the compression function on the previous Reddit distribution data, we found that we could compress batched minting data down to to 11.8 bytes per minting event (averaged over a 6-month trace of Reddit’s historical token grants)compared with roughly 174 bytes of on-chain data needed for the signature claim approach to minting (roughly 43 for an RLP-encoded null transaction + 65 for Reddit's signature + 65 for the user's signature + roughly 8 for the number of Points) . The relative benefit of the two approaches with respect to on-chain call data cost depends on the percentage of users that will actually claim their tokens on chain. With the above figures, batch minting will be cheaper if roughly 5% of users redeem their claims. We stress that our compression scheme is not Arbitrum-specific and would be beneficial in any general-purpose smart contract platform. 8. Benchmarks and costs In this section, we give the full costs of operating the Reddit contracts on an Arbitrum Rollup chain including the L1 gas costs for the Rollup chain, the costs of computation and storage for the L2 validators as well as the capital lockup requirements for staking. Arbitrum Rollup is still on testnet, so we did not run mainnet benchmarks. Instead, we measured the L1 gas cost and L2 workload for Reddit operations on Arbitrum and calculated the total cost assuming current Ethereum gas prices. As noted below in detail, our measurements do not assume that Arbitrum is consuming the entire capacity of Ethereum. We will present the details of our model now, but for full transparency you can also play around with it yourself and adjust the parameters, by copying the spreadsheet found here. Our cost model is based on measurements of Reddit’s contracts, running unmodified (except for the addition of a batch minting function) on Arbitrum Rollup on top of Ethereum. On the distribution of transactions and frequency of assertions. Reddit's instructions specify the following minimum parameters that submissions should support: Over a 5 day period, your scaling PoC should be able to handle:
100,000 point claims (minting & distributing points)
75,000 one-off points burning
We provide the full costs of operating an Arbitrum Rollup chain with this usage under the assumption that tokens are minted or granted to users in batches, but other transactions are uniformly distributed over the 5 day period. Unlike some other submissions, we do not make unrealistic assumptions that all operations can be submitted in enormous batches. We assume that batch minting is done in batches that use only a few percent on an L1 block’s gas, and that other operations come in evenly over time and are submitted in batches, with one batch every five minutes to keep latency reasonable. (Users are probably already waiting for L1 finality, which takes at least that long to achieve.) We note that assuming that there are only 300,000 transactions that arrive uniformly over the 5 day period will make our benchmark numbers lower, but we believe that this will reflect the true cost of running the system. To see why, say that batches are submitted every five minutes (20 L1 blocks) and there's a fixed overhead of c bytes of calldata per batch, the cost of which will get amortized over all transactions executed in that batch. Assume that each individual transaction adds a marginal cost of t. Lastly assume the capacity of the scaling system is high enough that it can support all of Reddit's 300,000 transactions within a single 20-block batch (i.e. that there is more than c + 300,000*t byes of calldata available in 20 blocks). Consider what happens if c, the per-batch overhead, is large (which it is in some systems, but not in Arbitrum). In the scenario that transactions actually arrive at the system's capacity and each batch is full, then c gets amortized over 300,000 transactions. But if we assume that the system is not running at capacity--and only receives 300,000 transactions arriving uniformly over 5 days-- then each 20-block assertion will contain about 200 transactions, and thus each transaction will pay a nontrivial cost due to c. We are aware that other proposals presented scaling numbers assuming that 300,000 transactions arrived at maximum capacity and was executed in a single mega-transaction, but according to our estimates, for at least one such report, this led to a reported gas price that was 2-3 orders of magnitude lower than it would have been assuming uniform arrival. We make more realistic batching assumptions, and we believe Arbitrum compares well when batch sizes are realistic. Our model. Our cost model includes several sources of cost:
L1 gas costs: This is the cost of posting transactions as calldata on the L1 chain, as well as the overhead associated with each batch of transactions, and the L1 cost of settling transactions in the Arbitrum protocol.
Validator’s staking costs: In normal operation, one validator will need to be staked. The stake is assumed to be 0.2% of the total value of the chain (which is assumed to be $1 per user who is eligible to claim points). The cost of staking is the interest that could be earned on the money if it were not staked.
Validator computation and storage: Every validator must do computation to track the chain’s processing of transactions, and must maintain storage to keep track of the contracts’ EVM storage. The cost of computation and storage are estimated based on measurements, with the dollar cost of resources based on Amazon Web Services pricing.
It’s clear from our modeling that the predominant cost is for L1 calldata. This will probably be true for any plausible rollup-based system. Our model also shows that Arbitrum can scale to workloads much larger than Reddit’s nominal workload, without exhausting L1 or L2 resources. The scaling bottleneck will ultimately be calldata on the L1 chain. We believe that cost could be reduced substantially if necessary by clever encoding of data. (In our design any compression / decompression of L2 transaction calldata would be done by client software and L2 programs, never by an L1 contract.) 9. Status of Arbitrum Rollup Arbitrum Rollup is live on Ethereum testnet. All of the code written to date including everything included in the Reddit demo is open source and permissively licensed under the Apache V2 license. The first testnet version of Arbitrum Rollup was released on testnet in February. Our current internal version, which we used to benchmark the Reddit contracts, will be released soon and will be a major upgrade. Both the Arbitrum design as well as the implementation are heavily audited by independent third parties. The Arbitrum academic paper was published at USENIX Security, a top-tier peer-reviewed academic venue. For the Arbitrum software, we have engaged Trail of Bits for a security audit, which is currently ongoing, and we are committed to have a clean report before launching on Ethereum mainnet. 10. Reddit Universe Arbitrum Rollup Chain The benchmarks described in this document were all measured using the latest internal build of our software. When we release the new software upgrade publicly we will launch a Reddit Universe Arbitrum Rollup chain as a public demo, which will contain the Reddit contracts as well as a Uniswap instance and a Connext Hub, demonstrating how Community Points can be integrated into third party apps. We will also allow members of the public to dynamically launch ecosystem contracts. We at Offchain Labs will cover the validating costs for the Reddit Universe public demo. If the folks at Reddit would like to evaluate our software prior to our public demo, please email us at [email protected] and we'd be more than happy to provide early access. 11. Even more scaling: Arbitrum Sidechains Rollups are an excellent approach to scaling, and we are excited about Arbitrum Rollup which far surpasses Reddit's scaling needs. But looking forward to Reddit's eventual goal of supporting hundreds of millions of users, there will likely come a time when Reddit needs more scaling than any Rollup protocol can provide. While Rollups greatly reduce costs, they don't break the linear barrier. That is, all transactions have an on-chain footprint (because all calldata must be posted on-chain), albeit a far smaller one than on native Ethereum, and the L1 limitations end up being the bottleneck for capacity and cost. Since Ethereum has limited capacity, this linear use of on-chain resources means that costs will eventually increase superlinearly with traffic. The good news is that we at Offchain Labs have a solution in our roadmap that can satisfy this extreme-scaling setting as well: Arbitrum AnyTrust Sidechains. Arbitrum Sidechains are similar to Arbitrum Rollup, but deviate in that they name a permissioned set of validators. When a chain’s validators agree off-chain, they can greatly reduce the on-chain footprint of the protocol and require almost no data to be put on-chain. When validators can't reach unanimous agreement off-chain, the protocol reverts to Arbitrum Rollup. Technically, Arbitrum Sidechains can be viewed as a hybrid between state channels and Rollup, switching back and forth as necessary, and combining the performance and cost that state channels can achieve in the optimistic case, with the robustness of Rollup in other cases. The core technical challenge is how to switch seamlessly between modes and how to guarantee that security is maintained throughout. Arbitrum Sidechains break through this linear barrier, while still maintaining a high level of security and decentralization. Arbitrum Sidechains provide the AnyTrust guarantee, which says that as long as any one validator is honest and available (even if you don't know which one will be), the L2 chain is guaranteed to execute correctly according to its code and guaranteed to make progress. Unlike in a state channel, offchain progress does not require unanimous consent, and liveness is preserved as long as there is a single honest validator. Note that the trust model for Arbitrum Sidechains is much stronger than for typical BFT-style chains which introduce a consensus "voting" protocols among a small permissioned group of validators. BFT-based protocols require a supermajority (more than 2/3) of validators to agree. In Arbitrum Sidechains, by contrast, all you need is a single honest validator to achieve guaranteed correctness and progress. Notice that in Arbitrum adding validators strictly increases security since the AnyTrust guarantee provides correctness as long as any one validator is honest and available. By contrast, in BFT-style protocols, adding nodes can be dangerous as a coalition of dishonest nodes can break the protocol. Like Arbitrum Rollup, the developer and user experiences for Arbitrum Sidechains will be identical to that of Ethereum. Reddit would be able to choose a large and diverse set of validators, and all that they would need to guarantee to break through the scaling barrier is that a single one of them will remain honest. We hope to have Arbitrum Sidechains in production in early 2021, and thus when Reddit reaches the scale that surpasses the capacity of Rollups, Arbitrum Sidechains will be waiting and ready to help. While the idea to switch between channels and Rollup to get the best of both worlds is conceptually simple, getting the details right and making sure that the switch does not introduce any attack vectors is highly non-trivial and has been the subject of years of our research (indeed, we were working on this design for years before the term Rollup was even coined). 12. How Arbitrum compares We include a comparison to several other categories as well as specific projects when appropriate. and explain why we believe that Arbitrum is best suited for Reddit's purposes. We focus our attention on other Ethereum projects. Payment only Rollups. Compared to Arbitrum Rollup, ZK-Rollups and other Rollups that only support token transfers have several disadvantages:
As outlined throughout the proposal, we believe that the entire draw of Ethereum is in its rich smart contracts support which is simply not achievable with today's zero-knowledge proof technology. Indeed, scaling with a ZK-Rollup will add friction to the deployment of smart contracts that interact with Community Points as users will have to withdraw their coins from the ZK-Rollup and transfer them to a smart contract system (like Arbitrum). The community will be best served if Reddit builds on a platform that has built-in, frictionless smart-contract support.
All other Rollup protocols of which we are aware employ a centralized operator. While it's true that users retain custody of their coins, the centralized operator can often profit from censoring, reordering, or delaying transactions. A common misconception is that since they're non-custodial protocols, a centralized sequencer does not pose a risk but this is incorrect as the sequencer can wreak havoc or shake down users for side payments without directly stealing funds.
Sidechain type protocols can eliminate some of these issues, but they are not trustless. Instead, they require trust in some quorum of a committee, often requiring two-third of the committee to be honest, compared to rollup protocols like Arbitrum that require only a single honest party. In addition, not all sidechain type protocols have committees that are diverse, or even non-centralized, in practice.
Plasma-style protocols have a centralized operator and do not support general smart contracts.
13. Concluding Remarks While it's ultimately up to the judges’ palate, we believe that Arbitrum Rollup is the bakeoff choice that Reddit kneads. We far surpass Reddit's specified workload requirement at present, have much room to optimize Arbitrum Rollup in the near term, and have a clear path to get Reddit to hundreds of millions of users. Furthermore, we are the only project that gives developers and users the identical interface as the Ethereum blockchain and is fully interoperable and tooling-compatible, and we do this all without any new trust assumptions or centralized components. But no matter how the cookie crumbles, we're glad to have participated in this bake-off and we thank you for your consideration. About Offchain Labs Offchain Labs, Inc. is a venture-funded New York company that spun out of Princeton University research, and is building the Arbitrum platform to usher in the next generation of scalable, interoperable, and compatible smart contracts. Offchain Labs is backed by Pantera Capital, Compound VC, Coinbase Ventures, and others. Leadership Team Ed Felten Ed Felten is Co-founder and Chief Scientist at Offchain Labs. He is on leave from Princeton University, where he is the Robert E. Kahn Professor of Computer Science and Public Affairs. From 2015 to 2017 he served at the White House as Deputy United States Chief Technology Officer and senior advisor to the President. He is an ACM Fellow and member of the National Academy of Engineering. Outside of work, he is an avid runner, cook, and L.A. Dodgers fan. Steven Goldfeder Steven Goldfeder is Co-founder and Chief Executive Officer at Offchain Labs. He holds a PhD from Princeton University, where he worked at the intersection of cryptography and cryptocurrencies including threshold cryptography, zero-knowledge proof systems, and post-quantum signatures. He is a co-author of Bitcoin and Cryptocurrency Technologies, the leading textbook on cryptocurrencies, and he has previously worked at Google and Microsoft Research, where he co-invented the Picnic signature algorithm. When not working, you can find Steven spending time with his family, taking a nature walk, or twisting balloons. Harry Kalodner Harry Kalodner is Co-founder and Chief Technology Officer at Offchain Labs where he leads the engineering team. Before the company he attended Princeton as a Ph.D candidate where his research explored economics, anonymity, and incentive compatibility of cryptocurrencies, and he also has worked at Apple. When not up at 3:00am writing code, Harry occasionally sleeps.
dxDAO aims to power DeFi protocols through decentralized governance
I found this article on internet. It's repost of it to help educate people about all DXDao advantages: These are positive and necessary steps for DeFi. The new governance structures are intended to help coordinate across community stakeholders and make better decisions. These dynamics are influenced by the issues covered in Dose of DeFi, but I believe they deserve their own focused analysis. Govern Thisaims to educate token holders and make them better voters. Emphasis will be placed on specific governance proposals and relaying community governance discussions on forums and weekly calls. Governance is a coordination technology that has helped countries and companies build more than the sum of their parts. Blockchains are also a coordination technology, but for computers, not humans***.*** Govern Thiswill track the development of the melding of these two over the coming years. Like governance,Govern Thisis a work in progress. I would appreciate any feedback on format, topics covered or any other suggestions to make the newsletter better. Just hit reply. The first issue ofGovern Thisis below. Pleaseclick here to subscribe. Thanks for reading, Chris 📷 dxDAO aims to power DeFi protocols through decentralized governance Gnosis launched a long-awaited DEX last week with batched auctions for low-liquidity trade pairs. The front-end, Mesa.Eth.Link is owned and operated by dxDAO, a decentralized collective that hopes to power other DeFi protocols. While dYdX does not have any specific governance plans (yet), this tweet from dYdX founder Antonio Juliano is a common approach to governance. 📷Antonio Juliano @AntonioMJuliano3) 0x should focus less on governance in the short term. It’s way more important to first build something with a large amount of adoption that’s worth governing December 6th 2018 3 Retweets62 Likes The tweet at the end of 2018 was in response to 0x and its native token, ZRX. The project was popular but the token had no use case outside of governance. This governance strategy – build now, decentralize later – is widely accepted in the space and is perhaps best exemplified by the A16Z’s Jesse Walden’s post, “Progressive Decentralization: A Playbook for Building Crypto Applications”, which the A16Z-backed Compound has essentially implemented (more in the section below). dxDAO, on the other hand, maintains that decentralization must come at the beginning or else the core team and investors will have an outsized influence on the project in formal (token voting) or informal ways (dictators for life). Background dxDAO was launched in May 2019, spun out of a collaboration between Gnosis and DAOstack over managing the DutchX platform. dxDAO’s key governance design is separating financial rights to the DAO (DXD) from voting power over the DAO (Reputation). It used an Edgeware-style lock drop to distribute reputation to stakeholders in May of last year. Any user could lock up ETH or an accepted ERC-20 for a month and receive Reputation, which are voting rights in dxDAO, even though it is not a token and cannot be transferred. Over 400 unique Ethereum addresses participated in the distribution scheme. Gnosis went through a pretty extensive process in July 2019 to “step back” from its involvement in the DAO, and since then, the community and dxDAO have aligned behind a mission of “putting the ‘De’ in Decentralized Finance”. Following on last week’s launch of Mesa.ETH.Link, dxDAO is conducting a fundraiser or (“DAICO”?) to help fund its new slate of DeFi products, including a prediction market platform (Omen) and a privacy-centric DeFi dashboard (Mix). Project launch is typically when a project is most centralized. Execution is hard and direction and accountability are important. dxDAO’s approach will be an interesting counterexample to the “decentralize later” trend and may provide insight into new governance strategies. Click here for more information about the dxDAO fundraiser. Here’s what is on the dxDAO docket this week:
There are no explicit plans yet, but the widely held assumption is that the COMP distribution will be determined by the interest earned and paid by users on the protocol since its inception. This is a clever way that only incentivizes more use of the protocol and is hard to game because interests accrues over time. But the question still remains, what will the COMP community look like and what values will it espouse? Can emergent cultures arise out of Silicon Valley too? Here’s what is on the Compound docket this week:
Governance AMA with Compound CEO Robert Leshner - Robert answered a variety of questions on ETH2.0 (staking yield is of great interest), Chainlink (Compound’s oracle system is better), contentious forks (Compound would signal a preference on chain) and how Covid-19 changed his mind about remote work. They also announced…
Proposal: Add USDT Support – announced on the AMA, USDT was approved by Compound users in a poll last September but had yet to be included. The proposal to add the largest stablecoin in the world is the first test for the new governance portal. (Very) notably, the proposal does not allow USDT to be used as collateral, as Compound currently does with wBTC. It’s not clear if Compound wants to be in the largest stablecoin market or not and underscores the governance challenges of straddling both worlds.
Head of Community Rich started off with a new meme for governance: the path from intent to implementation, discussing how forums, polls and other initiatives are designed to capture the intent of the community, and then “empowered people” are tasked with implementing that, foreshadowing upcoming changes.
Half of the call was devoted to the addition of WBTC as collateral with representatives from WBTC, Bitgo and CoinList in attendance. CoinList’s WBTC announcement gives WBTC the type of liquidity needed for Maker’s auctions (“can redeem WBTC in less than 2 minutes and burn less than that”). Most of the discussion revolved around the circular loop from BTC->DAI in times of high volatility. While there was some concern that WBTC liquidity was dependent on acceptance as Maker collateral, most on the call seemed to support the addition. The strongest support seemed to come from the Maker Foundation’s market making team, who is reportedly the largest market maker for WBTC. There’s more in the Maker forum thread.
State of the peg – Vishesh’s overview (graphs can be seen here) showed that the peg had come down to $1.01x area but most of the discussion was around the debt ceiling. At the time of the call it was 4 million away from its 90m debt ceiling. Vishesh advocated for a more programmatic lifting of the debt ceiling. Update: Dai hit the 90m debt ceiling Friday evening ET. Should help the peg.
Single Collateral Dai shutdown – the process has begun. A poll passed with May 12 as the official SCD shutdown. Just yesterday, an executive just passed yesterday to make the MKR oracle fee-less, which will help with migration. Many in the community think the migration of debt from SCD will do more than enough to restore the peg. 13 MIPs and 2 sub proposals – Core to the new Maker governance process is the “Maker Improvement Proposals (MIPs), which are modeled off of BIPs (for Bitcoin) and EIPs (for Ethereum). The two sub-proposals are to appoint the Smart Contracts Team and assign Charles St. Louis as the MIP editor. The 13 MIPs are listed below:
By and large, the MIPs codify many of the informal Maker governance processes. There is currently a request for comments period (MIP forum) and there will be an informal poll on Monday, April 27 on whether to proceed with the 13 MIPs and 2 sub proposals. If it’s a “Yes”, than an executive for an official ratification vote would start on May 1 and lasts for 4 days. If it passes, the official governance cycle will begin and the rest of the MIPs will likely be approved from May 4 – 6. Other Governing Things
Synthetix trials incentivzation program to encourage ETH shorts to balance debt position Link
PieDAO community call on audit and post imBTC actions Link
Coinbase Custody double downs on DeFi governance Link
Terra considers punishing validators that don’t vote Link
0x governance proposal to decrease epoch length to 7 days Link
That’s it! Feedback definitely appreciated. Just hit reply. Written in Brooklyn where it rained all day. No euchre today, but yesterday was epic. Govern This is written byChris Powers. Opinions expressed are my own. All content is for informational purposes and is not intended as investment advice.
Crypto Faucet I use to store my mined bitcoin on, with 4.08% APR paid daily with accounts over 30k satoshi. Referral link included, I share 50% commissions with my referrals paid every Sunday if you're interested.
My referral link for the aforementioned FREEBITCO.IN: https://freebitco.in/?r=30437643&tag=redditF I have cross referenced this post on my site: passivecryptoguides.com Why should you sign on with me? I'm not a one off, you can reach me personally through DM or post comments. I've done most of the leg work, alleviating the trial and error process. Just follow the steps in this guide specifically in sections 7️⃣, 8️⃣, and 9️⃣. I share 50% commissions, get a kick back on everything you earn weekly. I trust this site, and personally have 270$ worth of bitcoin in one account with almost 500$ total including two other accounts. Coming from Cointiply? Well, as a heads up, you're not actually holding any BTC. I suggest what you earn you HODL in FREEBITCO.IN. Just some abbreviation and terminology explanation before we start for those unfamiliar. BTC=Bitcoin USD=US Dollar Satoshi Click here Bitcoin price history, past and present ⏹⏹⏹⏹⏹⏹⏹⏹⏹⏹⏹⏹⏹⏹⏹⏹⏹⏹⏹⏹⏹⏹⏹ POST LAYOUT 1️⃣GENERAL INFO 2️⃣POST INTENTIONS 3️⃣MY EARNINGS 4️⃣HOW DO COMMISSION REWARDS WORK? 5️⃣SOME CLAIM STATS 6️⃣MULTIPLY BITCOIN STRATS AND INFO 7️⃣AUTOMATION 8️⃣OPTIMIZATION AND USE 9️⃣STRATS TO INCREASE EARNINGS 1️⃣0️⃣ADVERTISING YOUR LINK 1️⃣1️⃣LINKS ⏹⏹⏹⏹⏹⏹⏹⏹⏹⏹⏹⏹⏹⏹⏹⏹⏹⏹⏹⏹⏹⏹⏹ 1️⃣GENERAL INFO1️⃣ FREEBITCO.IN can be accessed from any device with internet. Using a VPN or a TOR is now allowed given that your account achieves certain criteria similar to a captcha free account requirements. 🛑WARNING: FREEBITCO.IN wipes inactive accounts after a certain period! If you lose interest, withdraw your BTC! 📝NOTE: iOS devices (iPad, iPhone) are restrictive. The only way to access is via website, as BitBot isn't available.📝 FREEBITCO.IN is what's called a "faucet", a site that gives a small steady stream of crypto which FREEBITCO.IN does through hourly rolls and interest accrual. FREEBITCO.IN also hosts other means to win or earn crypto, you can gamble with Multiplier, or bet on world evens and crypto prices. After your account reaches 30k Satoshi, you begin to collect interest. The site also offers lifetime referral commissions, explained later in this guide. All you need to start is an email. You can add more verification options for security later on. I would highly suggest it. Use a junk email though. 2FA and MFA are strongly suggested. A password should be 15 characters long. I suggest Google Authenticator for your 2FA needs. I know you can definitely access this site from Brave Browser with add blockers enabled. I'm sure it will work with others. Even without an ad blockers, they only advertise their site gambling and games, no 3rd party adds that I've seen. It's not too invasive or spammy either. ⏹⏹⏹⏹⏹⏹⏹⏹⏹⏹⏹⏹⏹⏹⏹⏹⏹⏹⏹⏹⏹⏹⏹ 2️⃣POST INTENTIONS2️⃣ This post is both an advertising platform I use, and a guide I've made to help those interested to automate and optimize earnings. For those of a cautious mindset, I've uploaded all of FREEBITCO.IN's information on interest accrual, security, and proof of mining on Imgur, in case you're worried about visiting the site. Transparent link here: Interest accrual structure and FREEBITCO.IN security. https://imgur.com/a/wWjQtKT My referral link: https://freebitco.in/?r=30437643&tag=redditC2 ⏹⏹⏹⏹⏹⏹⏹⏹⏹⏹⏹⏹⏹⏹⏹⏹⏹⏹⏹⏹⏹⏹⏹ 3️⃣MY EARNINGS3️⃣ So at this point, with hourly claims and daily interest, I'm bringing in roughly 8978 Satoshi (or .70$ USD with BTC at 7804$ USD) daily at full optimization on one account, and two other self referred accounts without lifting a finger. This is before the fact that a hourly roll (claim) can reward up to a max of 200$ USD worth of BTC (percentages in section 5️⃣). They also have a weekly lotto (tickets awarded with every roll and referral roll) with the last 1st place winner receiving .32769156 BTC (2587$ USD at current bitcoin price). This is also not including my current commissions on accounts not owned by me. In this post I will describe some of my strategies I've incorporated, and some insight into how this website works. To offload or withdraw bitcoin, you're going to need what is called a "wallet". I personally use Coinbase (available on mobile or desktop) as you can sell it through here as well and easily move money to Paypal or a bank. ⏹⏹⏹⏹⏹⏹⏹⏹⏹⏹⏹⏹⏹⏹⏹⏹⏹⏹⏹⏹⏹⏹⏹ 4️⃣HOW DO COMMISSION REWARDS WORK?4️⃣ If you are already on FREEBITCO.IN, do you have someone who referred you? Do they share commissions? If not, why not make a new account and join me, where you'll get a return on everything you earn. As you can see, large affiliate groups don't share anything, hoarding hundreds of thousands worth of BTC earned off their referrals I share 50% of my commissions. I get 50% of your roll rewards, 25% of your interest, and 0.4% of your wagers. All of this is paid out by FREEBITCO.IN as a commission, so it's not pulled from your rewards or held BTC. So the more you're active, the more you'll receive from me weekly (being active is doing anything that I get commissions from). IMPORTANT: Your (and all referrals) shares are based on activity, so if you are inactive for the week, you get a lower % for that week. If you're the most active of my referrals you get a higher percentage of what I share. This is to incentivize being active and to stop people from getting a cut without doing anything. If you have FREEBITCO.IN automated, you don't have to worry about this. However, having a larger bankroll to earn interest, or playing Multiply BTC (I do not suggest playing unless doing so to meet auto roll requirements) will increase can your activity further. Commission Structure Here is some proof, I've actually shared about 2/3 of all commissions Commissions update 12 January 2020 Here is a proof of Payment section per individual 📝NOTE: I've noticed when I was creating the images of commission sharing that the "RECENT" blocks are showing zero. If you look at totals from the first image, you can tell I'm actively sharing with all of my referrals.📝 Join my team FREEBITCO.IN ⏹⏹⏹⏹⏹⏹⏹⏹⏹⏹⏹⏹⏹⏹⏹⏹⏹⏹⏹⏹⏹⏹⏹ 5️⃣SOME CLAIM STATS5️⃣ You can earn AT LEAST .00000552 BTC (.048$) daily when automated (or claiming every hour on the hour) before bonuses (like using reward points to increase rewards 1000%). After some testing, it seems that this amount will always be about .048$ worth of BTC, base claim rewards no bonus active. After .00030000 BTC, you accrue compounding interest at a rate of 4.08% APR, paid daily. As soon as your daily interest is accredited, it too starts earning interest. The daily interest rate comes out to ~0.011% of your total held BTC. FREEBITCO.IN gives you a roll once every hour, free 📝NOTE: Roll rewards fluctuate inversely with BTC price. BTC goes down, roll rewards go up, vice versa. The BTC rewards USD value will be extremely close to the values represented below.📝 Current rewards and probability with every hourly roll. (.002$) -> 98.85% (.02$) -> 1.00% (.20$) -> .08% (2.00$) -> .04% (20$) -> .02% (200$) -> .01% ⏹⏹⏹⏹⏹⏹⏹⏹⏹⏹⏹⏹⏹⏹⏹⏹⏹⏹⏹⏹⏹⏹⏹ 6️⃣MULTIPLY BTC STRATS AND INFO6️⃣ 🛑!WARNING!, NO STRATEGY IS 100%, THE MULTIPLIER GAME IS GAMBLING, YOU CAN STILL LOSE YOUR WHOLE BALANCE IF YOU PUSH YOUR LUCK.🛑 UPDATE: I decided to do some research after some odd outcomes when extensively testing some of my Multiplier strats. Turns out FREEBITCO.IN does indeed have a house advantage that isn't too transparent. Longer sessions are almost always going to come out negative. If you still plan on playing, do short sessions, once daily max, with lower amounts. There are a couple methods to play the Multiplier with a reduced risk (but still a risk) here as well. I would suggest small play sessions. STRAT #1 My preferred settings for AUTOROLL on MULTIPLY that I've had the best success rate with to date. (preferably with .00005000 in ACCT for best results) BET: Minimum ODDS: 3 ROLLS: (doesn't matter, 100) BET ON: alternate STOP BETTING PROFIT: .00000050, important as the bets will get exponentially higher with every loss. Win in small increments. STOP BETTING LOSS: Set a loss limit if you want, I have mine set to .00001 and haven't reached it ON WIN: select increase bet 0% ON LOSS: select increase bet 65% RANDOMIZE CLIENT SEED: yes DO NOT REFRESH: yes Here is a pic of the settings Anything else doesn't matter. Make sure the boxes are checked for the above options. With this strat, I've won positive on one account, about .000077 BTC, and I've only played 5 or 6 times, at less than 2-3 minutes of play time a session. STRAT #2 Good for accounts with a low balance. I've had a surprising amount of luck with this method, enough so that I thought I'd post it here with an update. This could work well for accounts with less than 1k Satoshi, as a losing streak wouldn't be a huge loss. For this strat, you should have at least 189 Satoshi in your account. BET: Minimum amount ODDS/WIN CHANCE: 189 or %0.5 ROLLS: 189 (remains the same no matter if you bet more) BET ON: High or Low, but not Alternate. STOP BETTING ON PROFIT: Minimum amount, once again, you want continuous small wins UPDATE: Conducting more tests for viability I played these settings 10 times, I came out positive 8/10 times. In the end I was positive 433 Satoshi total with selecting "hi". On selecting "low" I went positive 5/10 losing 525 Satoshi. On selecting "hi" and betting 10 Satoshi, I went positive 3/10 times losing 9708 Satoshi. On selecting "high" and betting 100 Satoshi, I never went positive, 0/10. Losing 189000 Satoshi (~15$ USD). There does seem to be a pattern of losing more when betting more. Like anything gambling, there's probably a house advantage that's not too transparent. Win small lose small. Pic of these settings STRAT #3 Another strategy I've tried is betting most of my balance once occasionally with a 94.06% chance of winning. This is, eh, alright to risk OCCASIONALLY, but a loss would set you back more than you ever made using this strategy, which happened to me, I lost about 40 USD worth of BTC after making maybe 5 USD. THIS METHOD IS GREAT FOR MEETING NON-CAPTCHA ACCOUNT REQUIREMENTS! Playing this in auto roll, out of 20 rolls I'd always lose at least once, putting me into the negative. Even with 10 rolls, I'd more often then not lose at least once. Pic of these settings There are other strats out there, such as the "Martingale", which is essentially doubling the bet amount every loss, then resetting your bet to minimum after a win to in theory "win back what you lost". At 47.5% odds of winning, I've had loss streaks that would drain my account. My summary for Multiply, use sparingly. Don't use it as your primary means of earning. Use once or twice daily, limit play sessions to 5 minutes max. ⏹⏹⏹⏹⏹⏹⏹⏹⏹⏹⏹⏹⏹⏹⏹⏹⏹⏹⏹⏹⏹⏹⏹ 7️⃣AUTOMATION7️⃣ 📝NOTE: FREEBITCO.IN captcha requirements seem to be tiered, with requirements for Captcha free upscaling when you BTC holding passes a certain threshold. I'm currently testing, as is another team member (Shout out to u/SrExtreme69) , what exactly these thresholds, if holding at these thresholds increases the length of Captcha free rolls, and at what amount does FREEBITCO.IN no longer require these to be met.📝 📝NOTE: To start automating, remember to verify email and setup 2FA or the Captcha will still appear even if your account meets Captcha free requirements. Check the site occasionally as Captcha free roll requirements can change. After certain held BTC amount you don't need to renew your requirements. I haven't had to achieve new requirements in over a month.📝 📝NOTE: You may need to manually roll for a bit until the the ability to achieve a Captcha free account becomes available. It doesn't show at first.📝 📝NOTE: It's very difficult, if not impossible to automate on iOS devices. First of all, getting to this point can be a grind, but once achieved you'll have a steady flow of BTC with options to increase earnings through rewards claims using RP. I would suggest going to your PROFILE tab on FREEBITCO.IN and disabling lottery to increase RP production when starting out. Using other apps or resources to supplement income is a good idea as well. On the FREE BTC page, there is a blue text hyperlink with requirements that need to be met to make your account captcha free, thus allowing you to enable autoroll on extensions or apps. It has multiple ways to achieve this and they can change, so if your autoroll has stopped, check to see if these requirements have changed. Here are the requirements. (Amounts vary) It seems only two of these requirements need to be met. The less risky and easiest method is to buy lottery tickets and bet with jackpots on. Even better is depositing bitcoin if you have that amount. The POSSIBLY least expensive method is to bet both regularly and with Jackpots enabled on MULTIPLY (for higher amounts required, IMO Multiplier strat #3 works best) ⏹⏹⏹⏹⏹⏹⏹⏹⏹⏹⏹⏹⏹⏹⏹⏹⏹⏹⏹⏹⏹⏹⏹ 8️⃣OPTIMIZATION AND USE OF FREEBITCO.IN8️⃣ For computers I would suggest using Firefox, as you can add functions and tools to your bar up top. One of the being a "auto roll" for FREEBITCO.IN, still requires a "captcha free" account. Turn it on and let go, check it occasionally to make sure its still going. Autoroll firefox add-on link My link again for ease of access Not my preferred method, but good for a second account, as using a computer means devoting more attention to FREEBITCO.IN in an inconvenient manner if you are just starting out. After Captcha has been removed, this becomes more hands free, but not as profitable as using bitbot, as you can't autoclaim RP rewards. I haven't tried many methods besides using Firefox addons, as I'm wary of sources or intent when it comes to 3rd party scripts or programs. If I find any trustworthy scripts or programs, I will update here. For Mobile 🛑BITBOT WARNING, IF YOU USE BITBOT TO ACCESS FREEBITCO.IN BEFORE USING MY REFERRAL, YOU WILL BE REFERRED THROUGH BITBOT, AND THEY DON'T SHARE COMMISSIONS AS FAR AS I CAN TELL🛑 My Link again 📝NOTE: iOS devices (iPhone, iPad) do not have access to BitBot, nor do they allow extensions/add-ons on their browsers. I have not personally found a way around this. You may still access the site and manually roll.📝 I use BitBot. This is the best place to start from IMO. You can set it to notify you of rolls and gives direct access to the site from the app (you can also access the site from any device with internet). Once your account is "captcha free" you can set it to auto roll AND automatically claim rewards every 24 hours (RP increase, BTC increase, Lottery ticket Increase). 📝NOTE: Bitbot allows auto roll from the app for accounts over 500 RP. This isn't permanent, as it uses your RP. You'll need to log onto the website through a browser to achieve captch free account requirements, which Bitbot does recognize, which allow completely free rolls.📝 📝NOTE: Accessing FREEBITCO.IN through BitBot doesn't allow access to the Hi-Lo or betting games.📝 ⏹⏹⏹⏹⏹⏹⏹⏹⏹⏹⏹⏹⏹⏹⏹⏹⏹⏹⏹⏹⏹⏹⏹ 9️⃣STRATS TO INCREASE EARNINGS9️⃣ Bitbot optimization I started manual claims by setting roll notifications to "ON" for a while until I supplemented my BTC in FREEBITCO.IN with what I was collecting from my miner and CryptoTab. Once I was able to AUTOMATE and I had enough RP to claim the RP BONUS, I set it to do that automatically every 24 hours as this nets more RP than you spend (EG, 100 RP roll bonus costs 1200 RP, but can net 2400 RP if claimed every hour). Eventually you accrue enough RP to claim the %1000 BTC bonus, probably at a rate of once or twice a week. My current BitBot settings now that its auto claiming, I have the 24 hour auto bonus claiming 100 RP roll bonus and 100% claim bonus, spending a total of 1520 RP, but I'm making 2400 RP with the RP bonus, leaving me 780 RP in the positive each day. Every now and then I'll stop the auto bonus claim so I can buy the 1000% claim bonus (3200 RP). So on a normal day I'll make about 1344 Satoshi. Bitbot auto bonus settings Once your accrue more referrals, or save enough RP, it's possible to claim the 1000% BTC roll bonus multiple days in a row. This is just about as optimal as you can get for auto rolling. Self Referrals If you have two devices (phone and computer preferably) you can make two accounts as long as one uses a different wifi or internet connection, as the roll rewards tracks IP addresses for roll counts. So if you have 2 devices on the same network, it sudo links accounts, so if you roll on one, it restarts the timer on the other. This allows you to collect referral rewards from yourself. Effectively adding 25% of interest and 50% roll rewards. I currently have a phone autorolling on BitBot with a computer autorolling on Firefox with a tool to roll automatically as long as the page remains open. My computer account is referred from my mobile account, and is currently bringing in an extra .000015+ BTC weekly (currently, total will be this Sunday and I will update). I've also made another account on my partners phone, linked it with bitbot and got it auto-rolling. Once bitbot is going, its non-invasive and you can silence notifications, it also uses minimal data. Supplementing with CryptoTab I'll use CryptoTab on my computer 24/7 to earn BTC from that while I have FREEBITCO.IN running. I also have it running on my phone at night when I sleep and on an iPad I have that I don't use much, its server mining, so no worries about battery on mobile devices. On computers it does actually use your processing power. You can directly deposit into you FREEBITCO.IN accounts. CryptoTab Link I've used it for two weeks and have earned a total of .000454 BTC (3.60$ USD). Not huge, but enough to start collecting interest on FREEBITCO.IN and to get the capthca free account requirements. Supplementing with Cointiply 🛑WARNING: Cointiply's main currency is the constant, weighted against the dollar (10,000 coin/1USD). This means your actually BTC holdings will fluctuate with BTC's price. For this reason, it's my strong opinion that DON'T HODL in Cointiply as you're not holding actual BTC.🛑 Cointiply is a great site to earn decent amounts of COIN which translate to SAT's. Earn coin, withdraw to FREEBITCO.IN (as you actually hold BTC in cointiply). I also use an ASIC miner (Antminer s9i, DIY liquid cooled and overclocked with BixBit firmware), and whatever I earn I'll put that into FREEBITCO.IN to collect interest. If you want, I may be willing to do a rental. ⏹⏹⏹⏹⏹⏹⏹⏹⏹⏹⏹⏹⏹⏹⏹⏹⏹⏹⏹⏹⏹⏹⏹ 1️⃣0️⃣ADVERTISING YOUR LINK1️⃣0️⃣ 📝NOTE: Since this faucet has been around a while, many people privy to sites such as this are already signed up. So getting referrals can be a slog. My tips for your ads is be genuine and don't hard sell or post "too good to be true" sensational ads.📝 COINTIPLY This is another faucet. Its structure is a bit different from FREEBITCO.IN, as you complete offers to earn coin. Within this site (also an app) users can earn coins by doing PTC ads (and other offers), this is a good method to get exposure as you can advertise as well. Using this method my traffic for last week as about 800 people. 13000 coins buys about 1000 "clicks" on your ads. They also have options to advertise to people based on location (these options will increase or decrease cost). After your first ad, you usually get a 10% off coupon good for 7 days as well. You can earn this amount within a day doing surveys on Theorem. I've done surveys before, and this has to be one of the best surveys sights I've ever done. Very rarely do I get kicked out mid survey, and if I do, I still get partial pay. I will also use "Hideout" on my computer and leave it running. It has to be the open tab on your browser, with the browser open, not minimized. Let it go and check it occasionally as it has a timeout at roughly 2-3 hrs idle. As of now this is the best passive method of earning on Cointiply. PI NETWORK Pi Network, an ICO (Initial coin offering) based on trust and social media is another good medium for advertising. I will usually see 15-20 people click on my link with 2-4 ads posted per day. Just go to "chat", select "random" and post an ad in the chat channel. No charge. My tip, keep your ads short to medium in length, don't spam. XYO NETWORK/COIN APP This is another crypto earned through "geo-mining". On the "coin" app you can do a "geodrop" where you can leave a note. Just click on the box with a parachute icon, select "any" on the "Tile" selection. Leave your ad in the "note" section. It costs 10 "COIN" at the very least to do a "geodrop". This method may not be worth it if you aren't already involved in the program. To earn a substantial amount of coin, you'll need a subscription or a "sentinel". Sentinels can actually be purchased for under 20$ nowadays (depending on site) and is the best option to earn. Without these you'll only make approx .05-.18 coin every 30 seconds if you're actively moving. My tips if you plan on advertising on this platform, once again keep it short, and only advertise around 7-9am and 4-6pm, as this will be peak mining hours with people driving to and from work. ⏹⏹⏹⏹⏹⏹⏹⏹⏹⏹⏹⏹⏹⏹⏹⏹⏹⏹⏹⏹⏹⏹⏹ 1️⃣1️⃣LINKS1️⃣1️⃣ My FREEBITCO.IN Referral Link What is a Satoshi? Bitcoins price through Coingecko CryptoTab Link Autoroll on Firefox Coinbase Link PI NETWORK COINTIPLY XYO NETWORK/COIN APP ⏹⏹⏹⏹⏹⏹⏹⏹⏹⏹⏹⏹⏹⏹⏹⏹⏹⏹⏹⏹⏹⏹⏹
STATUS: Majority of questions have been answered. If yours got missed, please feel free to post it again. Introduction All, Based on the rapid increase in popularity and price of bitcoin and other crypto currencies (particularly over the past year), I expect that lots of people have questions about how crypto currency will impact their taxes. This thread attempts to address several common issues. I'm posting similar versions of it here, in several major crypto subs, and eventually in the weekly "tax help" threads personalfinance runs. I'd like to thank the /personalfinance mod team and the /tax community for their help with this thread and especially for reading earlier versions and offering several valuable suggestions/corrections. This thread is NOT an endorsement of crypto currency as an investing strategy. There is a time and a place to debate the appropriateness of crypto as part of a diversified portfolio - but that time is not now and that place is not here. If you are interested in the general consensus of this sub on investing, I would urge you to consult the wiki while keeping in mind the general flowchart outlining basic steps to get your finances in order. Finally, please note that this thread attempts to provide information about your tax obligations as defined by United States law (and interpreted by the IRS under the direction of the Treasury Department). I understand that a certain portion of the crypto community tends to view crypto as "tax free" due to the (actual and perceived) difficulty for the IRS to "know" about the transactions involved. I will not discuss unlawfully concealing crypto gains here nor will I suggest illegal tax avoidance activities. The Basics This section is best for people that don't understand much about taxes. It covers some very basic tax principles. It also assumes that all you did during the year was buy/sell a single crypto currency. Fundamentally, the IRS treats crypto not as money, but as an asset (investment). While there are a few specific "twists" when it comes to crypto, when in doubt replace the word "crypto" with the word "stock" and you will get a pretty good idea how you should report and pay tax on crypto. The first thing you should know is that the majority of this discussion applies to the taxes you are currently working on (2017 taxes). The tax bill that just passed applies to 2018 taxes (with a few very tiny exceptions), which most people will file in early 2019. In general, you don't have to report or pay taxes on crypto currency holdings until you "cash out" all or part of your holdings. For now, I'm going to assume that you cash out by selling them for USD; however, other forms of cashing out will be covered later. When you sell crypto, you report the difference between your basis (purchase price) and proceeds (sale price) on Schedule D. Your purchase price is commonly referred to as your basis; while the two terms don't mean exactly the same thing, they are pretty close to one another (in particular, there are three two ways to calculate your basis - your average cost, a first-in, first-out method, and a "specific identification" method. See more about these here and here). EDIT - you may not use average cost method with crypto - see here. If you sell at a gain, this gain increases your tax liability; if you sell at a loss, this loss decreases your tax liability (in most cases). If you sell multiple times during the year, you report each transaction separately (bad news if you trade often) but get to lump all your gains/losses together when determining how the trades impact your income. One important thing to remember is that there are two different types of gains/losses from investments - short term gains (if you held an asset for one year or less) and long term gains (over one year; i.e. one year and one day). Short term gains are taxed at your marginal income rate (basically, just like if you had earned that money at a job) while long term gains are taxed at lower rates. For most people, long term capital gains are taxed at 15%. However, if you are in the 10% or 15% tax bracket, congrats - your gains (up to the maximum amount of "unused space" in your bracket) are tax free! If you are in the 25%, 28%, 33%, or 35% bracket, long term gains are taxed at 15%. If you are in the 39.6% bracket, long term gains are taxed at 20%. Additionally, there is an "extra" 3.8% tax that applies to gains for those above $200,000/$250,000 (single/married). The exact computation of this tax is a little complicated, but if you are close to the $200,000 level, just know that it exists. Finally, you should know that I'm assuming that you should treat your crypto gains/losses as investment gains/losses. I'm sure some people will try and argue that they are really "day traders" of crypto and trade as a full time job. While this is possible, the vast majority of people don't qualify for this status and you should really think several times before deciding you want to try that approach on the IRS. "Cashing Out" - Trading Crypto for Goods/Services I realize that not everyone that "cashes out" of crypto does so by selling it for USD. In fact, I understand that some in the crypto community view the necessity of cashing out itself as a type of myth. In this section, I discuss what happens if you trade your crypto for basically anything that isn't cash (minor sidenote - see next section for a special discussion on trading crypto for crypto; i.e. buying altcoins with crypto). The IRS views trading crypto for something of value as a type of bartering that must be included in income. From the IRS's perspective, it doesn't matter if you sold crypto for cash and bought a car with that cash or if you just traded crypto directly for the car - in both cases, the IRS views you as having sold your crypto. This approach isn't unique to crypto - it works the same way if you trade stock for something. This means that if you do trade your crypto for "stuff", you have to report every exchange as a sale of your crypto and calculate the gain/loss on that sale, just as if you had sold the crypto for cash. Finally, there is one important exception to this rule. If you give your crypto away to charity (one recognized by the IRS; like a 501(c)(3) organization), the IRS doesn't make you report/pay any capital gains on the transaction. Additionally, you still get to deduct the value of your donation on the date it was made. Now, from a "selfish" point of view, you will always end up with more money if you sell the crypto, pay the tax, and keep the rest. But, if you are going to make a donation anyway, especially a large one, giving crypto where you have a big unrealized/untaxed gain is a very efficient way of doing so. "Alt Coins" - Buying Crypto with Crypto The previous section discusses what happens when you trade crypto for stuff. However, one thing that surprises many people is that trading crypto for crypto is also a taxable event, just like trading crypto for a car. Whether you agree with this position or not, it makes a lot of sense once you realize that the IRS doesn't view crypto as money, but instead as an asset. So to the IRS, trading bitcoin for ripple isn't like trading dollars for euros, but it is instead like trading shares of Apple stock for shares of Tesla stock. Practically, what this means is that if you trade one crypto for another crypto (say BTC for XRP just to illustrate the point), the IRS views you as doing the following:
Selling for cash the amount of BTC you actually traded for XRP.
Owing capital gains/losses on the BTC based on its selling price (the fair market value at the moment of the exchange) and your purchase price (basis).
Buying a new investment (XRP) with a cost basis equal to the amount the BTC was worth when you exchanged them.
This means that if you "time" your trade wrong and the value of XRP goes down after you make the exchange, you still owe tax on your BTC gain even though you subsequently lost money. The one good piece of news in this is that when/if you sell your XRP (or change it back to BTC), you will get a capital loss for the value that XRP dropped. There is one final point worth discussing in this section - the so called "like kind exchange" rules (aka section 1031 exchange). At a high level, these rules say that you can "swap" property with someone else without having to pay taxes on the exchange as long as you get property in return that is "like kind". Typically, these rules are used in real estate transactions. However, they can also apply to other types of transactions as well. While the idea is simple (and makes it sound like crypto for crypto should qualify), the exact rules/details of this exception are very fact specific. Most experts (including myself, but certainly not calling myself an expert) believe that a crypto for crypto swap is not a like kind exchange. The recently passed tax bill also explicitly clarifies this issue - starting in 2018, only real estate qualifies for like kind exchange treatment. So, basically, the vast majority of evidence suggests that you can't use this "loophole" for 2017; however, there is a small minority view/some small amount of belief that this treatment would work for 2017 taxes and it is worth noting that I'm unaware of any court cases directly testing this approach. Dealing with "Forks" Perhaps another unpleasant surprise for crypto holders is that "forks" to create a new crypto also very likely generate a taxable event. The IRS has long (since at least the 1960s) held that "found" money is a taxable event. This approach has been litigated in court and courts have consistently upheld this position; it even has its own cool nerdy tax name - the "treasure trove" doctrine. Practically, what this means is that if you owned BTC and it "forked" to create BCH, then the fair market value of the BCH you received is considered a "treasure trove" that must be reported as income (ordinary income - no capital gain rates). This is true whether or not you sold your BCH; if you got BCH from a fork, that is a taxable event (note - I'll continue using BTC forking to BCH in this section as an example, but the logic applies to all forks). While everything I've discussed up to this point is pretty clearly established tax law, forks are really where things get messy with taxes. Thus, the remainder of this section contains more speculation than elsewhere in this post - the truth is that while the idea is simple (fork = free money = taxable), the details are messy and other kinds of tax treatment might apply to forks. One basic practical problem with forks is that the new currency doesn't necessarily start trading immediately. Thus, you may have received BCH before there was a clear price or market for it. Basically, you owe tax on the value of BCH when you received it, but it isn't completely clear what that value was. There are several ways you can handle this; I'll list them in order from most accurate to least accurate (but note that this is just my personal view and there is ongoing disagreement on this issue with little/no authoritative guidance).
Use a futures market to determine the value of the BCH - if reliable sources published realistic estimates of what BCH will trade for in the future once trading begins, use this estimate as the value of your BCH. Pros/cons - futures markets are, in theory, pretty accurate. However, if they are volatile/subject to manipulation, they may provide an incorrect estimate of the true value of BCH. It would suck to use the first futures value published only to have that value plummet shortly thereafter, leaving you to pay ordinary income tax but only have an unrealized capital loss.
Wait until an exchange starts trading BCH; use the actual ("spot" price) as the value. Pros/cons - spot prices certainly reflect what you could have sold BCH for; however, it is possible that the true value of the coin was highelower when you received it as compared to when it started trading on the exchange. Thus this method seems less accurate to me than a futures based approach, but it is still certainly fairly reasonable.
Assume that the value is $0. This is my least preferred option, but there is still a case to be made for it. If you receive something that you didn't want, can't access, can't sell, and might fail, does it have any value? I believe the answer is yes (maybe not value it perfectly, but value it somewhat accurately), but if you honestly think the answer is no, then the correct tax answer would be to report $0 in income from the fork. The IRS would be most likely to disagree with this approach, especially since it results in the least amount of income reported for the current year (and the most favorable rates going forward). Accordingly, if you go this route, make extra sure you understand what it entails.
Note, once you've decided what to report as taxable income, this amount also becomes your cost basis in the new crypto (BCH). Thus, when you ultimately sell your BCH (or trade it for something else as described above), you calculate your gain/loss based on what you included in taxable income from the fork. Finally, there is one more approach to dealing with forks worth mentioning. A fork "feels" a lot like a dividend - because you held BTC, you get BCH. In a stock world, if I get a cash dividend because I own the stock, that money is not treated as a "treasure trove" and subject to ordinary income rates - in most cases, it is a qualified dividend and subject to capital gain rates; in some cases, some types of stock dividends are completely non taxable. This article discusses this idea in slightly more detail and generally concludes that forks should not be treated as a dividend. Still, I would note that I'm unaware of any court cases directly testing this theory. Ultimately, this post is supposed to be practical, so let me make sure to leave you with two key thoughts about the taxation of forks. First, I believe that the majority of evidence suggests that forks should be treated as a "treasure trove" and reported as ordinary income based on their value at creation and that this is certainly the "safest" option. Second, out of everything discussed in this post, I also believe that the correct taxation of forks is the murkiest and most "up for debate" area. If you are interested in a more detailed discussion of forks, see this thread for a previous version of this post discussing it at even more length and the comments for a discussion of this with the tax community. Mining Crypto Successfully mining crypto coins is a taxable event. Depending on the amount of effort you put into mining, it is either considered a hobby or a self-employment (business) activity. The IRS provides the following list of questions to help decide the correct classification:
The manner in which the taxpayer carries on the activity.
The expertise of the taxpayer or his advisors.
The time and effort expended by the taxpayer in carrying on the activity.
Expectation that assets used in activity may appreciate in value.
The success of the taxpayer in carrying on other similar or dissimilar activities.
The taxpayer’s history of income or losses with respect to the activity.
The amount of occasional profits, if any, which are earned.
If this still sounds complicated, that's because the distinction is subject to some amount of interpretation. As a rule of thumb, randomly mining crypto on an old computer is probably a hobby; mining full time on a custom rig is probably a business. In either event, you must include in income the fair market value of any coins you successfully mine. These are ordinary income and your basis in these coins is their fair market value on the date they were mined. If your mining is a hobby, they go on line 21 (other income) and any expenses directly associated with mining go on schedule A (miscellaneous subject to 2% of AGI limitation). If your mining is a business, income and expenses go on schedule C. Both approaches have pros and cons - hobby income isn't subject to the 15.3% self-employment tax, only normal income tax, but you get fewer deductions against your income and the deductions you get are less valuable. Business income has more deductions available, but you have to pay payroll (self-employment) tax of about 15.3% in addition to normal income tax. What if I didn't keep good records? Do I really have to report every transaction? One nice thing about the IRS treating crypto as an asset is that we can look at how the IRS treats people that "day trade" stock and often don't keep great records/have lots of transactions. While you need to be as accurate as possible, it is ok to estimate a little bit if you don't have exact records (especially concerning your cost basis). You need to put in some effort (research historical prices, etc...) and be reasonable, but the IRS would much rather you do a little bit of reasonable estimation as opposed to just not reporting anything. Sure, they might decide to audit you/disagree with some specifics, but you earn yourself a lot of credit if you can show that you honestly did the best you reasonably could and are making efforts to improve going forward. However, concerning reporting every transaction - yes, sorry, it is clear that you have to do this, even if you made hundreds or thousands of them. Stock traders have had to go through this for many decades, and there is absolutely no reason to believe that the IRS would accept anything less from the crypto community. If you have the records or have any reasonable way of obtaining records/estimating them, you must report every transaction. What if I don't trust you? Well, first let me say that I can't believe you made it all the way down here to this section. Thanks for giving me an honest hearing. I would strongly encourage you to go read other well-written, honest guides. I'll link to some I like (both more technical IRS type guides and more crypto community driven guides). While a certain portion of the crypto community seems to view one of the benefits of crypto as avoiding all government regulation (including taxes), I've been pleasantly surprised to find that many crypto forums contain well reasoned, accurate tax guides. While I may not agree with 100% of their conclusions, that likely reflects true uncertainty around tax law that is fundamentally complex rather than an attempt on either end to help individuals unlawfully avoid taxes. IRS guides
From the beginning, the creator(s) of bitcoin intended it to be a privacy coin to keep user information protected. But because of the open ledger technology used in cryptocurrencies, tracking transactional data could and still can be relatively easy. For example, when someone wants to spy and track transactions, they may set up spy nodes that attempt to triangulate data. https://preview.redd.it/m0d71wc2jxu41.jpg?width=740&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=24f6266299c0f09e88042bdb30e2d84048979a77 Despite identifying wallets via alphanumeric (consisting of or using both letters and numerals) codes rather than real names, bitcoin isn’t anonymous. Because the blockchain keeps an immutable record of every single fraction of bitcoin moved in and out of these wallets, it’s surprisingly easy to trace the flow of bitcoin from one wallet to another. Transactional data on ledgers like the Bitcoin Blockchain is open and public. It means they show the date, amount, and receiving and sending wallet addresses. Anyone using the network can see this information. If a crypto user wants additional layers of privacy, they can go to extra lengths to get them. Adding privacy is possible in a variety of ways, including the use of a Privacy Coin. A recent report from the Massachusetts Institute of Technology (MIT) confirms the need for privacy for a digital monetary system. It’s precisely for this reason that a new breed of cryptocurrencies — privacy coins — have been emerging since 2014. As the name implies, these aim to offer greater anonymity than the likes of bitcoin and ethereum. It’s becoming apparent that privacy-coin features will be vital if cryptocurrencies are to be widely adopted in the future. There are at least 30 privacy coins, with most of them aiming for privacy through a variety of different measures. https://preview.redd.it/wrut0gb6jxu41.jpg?width=1600&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0a07a945d6cccde6f112bb531b5a6c97f3001353
Monero(XMR): Two methods to conceal identities
The most well known is Monero (XMR), which was launched in April 2014 and which uses two methods to conceal identities: confidential ring transactions (RingCTs) and stealth addresses. Simply put, the use of RingCTs allows the Monero blockchain to verify transactions without revealing how much was transacted and who transacting parties are. As for stealth addresses, these involve a recipient of an XMR payment receiving her new funds at a one-time, randomly generated ‘stealth’ address, which isn’t linked to her usual account. However, Monero’s privacy algorithm has a potential vulnerability that makes it possible for researchers to be able to trace around 80% of Monero transactions, recent paper states. https://preview.redd.it/4mvghtw8jxu41.png?width=1920&format=png&auto=webp&s=46a11f249028492d45fa64822c097b0cff865a5c
Celare: First full-asset cross-chain and anonymous solution
Such features of privacy coins will be of paramount importance if any cryptocurrencies are to be used as currency on a mass scale. Even though some of the above coins have certain weak spots, they’re continuously improved, while newer privacy coins (e.g., Celare) are emerging all the time. And far from being an attempt by developers to make crypto even ‘shadier’ than it’s sometimes perceived to be, privacy coins are, on the contrary, another critical step in bringing crypto a bit closer to the mainstream. Fungibility is something that other privacy coins strive for, but with mixed results. Celare achieves privacy via a process known as “zk-SNARK” (zero-knowledge, Succinct Non-Interactive Argument of Knowledge). Similar to RingCTs, this proves that a transaction is valid without recording any other information about it (such as amounts and addresses). Celare, a parallel chain of smart privacy contracts in the Polkadot ecosystem, is developed based on Substrate. By selecting the BLS12–381 curve to achieve zero-knowledge proof, Celare indeed implements the blockchain system with the privacy protection of Turing-complete smart contracts. It bridges the connectivity between different projects and ensures the privacy of the project and assets safety, better to create ecological consensus. Compared with the existing Blockchain privacy protection technology, Celare not only realizes the privacy protection of account information and transaction but also recognizes the cross-chain ecosystem. It is a secure, anonymous channel that breaks the Internet blockade and does not require a VPN, to protect user privacy and security for the entire Celare ecosystem. The so-called anonymity is not only the authentication without personal identity information, but also the hidden high-anonymity Celare of the communication channel uses distributed nodes to support the entire network operation. Not only that, in the process of using covert chat, but no third party stores the message content, and the chat content will also be stored in the local file. The master node is only responsible for providing network transmission and content delivery. Based on anonymous peer-to-peer chat, Celare users and groups in the community can independently launch OTC (over-the-counter transaction). Celare will be evolved and absorbed in the Celare development process, to realize plenty of the stack ecology applications, such as Parity Substrate, Wasm, DAO, Treasury. https://preview.redd.it/fd02yiidjxu41.jpg?width=1000&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2de0ba384f7a4d3f38f9d6da5ade8000ef979e4b Brian Armstrong, the CEO of Coinbase, has stated in a recent blog post that there will be a need for privacy features on blockchains in this decade. According to him, this is besides scalability the most crucial aspect for the coming years to achieve widespread acceptance. Armstrong predicts that blockchains “will reach about 1 billion users by the end of the decade”. The Bitcoin Network is continuously developing and implementing additional privacy layers to deal with the challenges of open ledgers. The only sure thing is that in the next few years, the privacy coin realm will be fascinating. Join Us at Celare Community today to stay up to date with all the latest crypto happenings and news. Contact Us: Twitter: @CelareCommunity Telegram：t.me/celarecommunity_en Reddit：u/Celarecommunity GitHub：Celaregithub
How I Got Paid By 65 Different Beermoney Programs in 2018 [Guide]
How I Got Paid By 65 Different Beermoney Programs in 2018
Hi! Welcome to my guide for everything that paid me in 2018. Before I begin, here are a few details:
I do this completely on the side as a hobby. I have a job and am in school full time. This is just “extra”.
I don’t really do passive video programs and I don’t have a phone farm. Also, no mTurk.
I did not include referral earnings, and all of my earnings I included here are earned within the sites’ TOS and without exploiting any site.
I only counted earnings as what I actually cashed out of sites and received.
My selection of sites I use is very diversified, so you can make a lot more on some of these programs than I actually do. I just spread my time across a lot of different sites.
There are a couple ref links in here and they are clearly marked as so. I only included ones for less popular sites and ones that give a bonus to you guys when you use them. If you want a ref link for sites like Swagbucks check out the common beermoney sites pinned post and use one of the links on there to help someone else out :)
This was my top earner for the year and it only took me up until September to earn this amount. I had to stop because they require a W9 for anything over $600 and I was too lazy to file that. It is pretty similar to a traditional survey router, but I seem to have much better luck with not disqualifying here. I get paid $1 per survey but some people earn $2 per survey based on their demographics. Some people have issues with bans and getting locked out of accounts, so it is not for everyone. Because of this, it is important to cash out the minute you hit the cashout minimum of $10. There are both android and iOS apps but I highly recommend using android if possible because the iOS app pays in iTunes gift cards and the android app pays in Amazon gift cards. Overall, Quickthoughts is great if you are one of the lucky ones without account issues.
This is one of my favorite beermoney programs of all time. You complete a variety of very short polls and questions about consumer goods, food products, and services. The polls pay 1.5 cents each and the short answer questions pay 10 cents each. There are other ways that they ask questions, including longer surveys that are a combination between the polls and questions. All of them are well worth it for the time that they take. Reward options include Amazon, Target, Walmart, Steam, Xbox, and more. You can cash out starting at $5 and I am able to cash out about once a week. Definitely add this one to your routine if you have not yet.
This one is great. Take academic surveys for universities and researchers and get paid in cash. As long as you don’t miss attention checks you won’t get disqualified. Some people get multiple surveys a day and others get only a few a week based on demographics. Many pay at least minimum wage. I could have made a lot more on here if I tried. Universally regarded as one of the most “worth it” survey sites so give it a shot!
Pinecone pays a guaranteed $3 for 10-15 min surveys regarding opinions on new products. They also send free samples sometimes! You can cash out for a variety of gift cards or PayPal. I get about 1 survey a week on average. Pinecone is invite only so look for invites to sign up on other GPT sites as sometimes you can find them there. If you get in it is some of the best money you can make with surveys for the time you spend on it.
Branded Surveys has traditional router surveys. A major perk of using Branded used to be their generous daily login bonus. This has been reduced to 5 cents a day, so it might not be worth using this site for the login bonus alone anymore. They have a very high EngageMe rate at one cent per 3 videos if that’s your thing as well! Payouts start at $10 via Paypal and Amazon.
Big fan of this one. Their surveys have guaranteed rewards even if you screen out and can pay up to $2-3 for like 10-15 minutes. Their currency is “shells” and each shell converts to about 7 cents. Installing their meter on your devices adds a guaranteed 5 shells per survey. If you add it to your computer, phone, and tablet you get an extra 15 shells (about a dollar) per survey. I just have it on my computer so I get 5 bonus shells. Cashouts are quick for e-gift cards and they also offer physical items. Saving up for larger gift cards typically gives you better rates.
PrizeRebel is your typical GPT site with a variety of ways to earn, but it is most well-known for surveys. They pay $0.80 per survey on the YourSurvey router and that is where a majority of my earnings have come. Lots of cashout options starting at $2.
YouGov is a survey site/app that pays anywhere from $0.50 to $2 per survey. The best part of it is that you never disqualify. I get a couple surveys a week. Most of the surveys are about public policy, politics, or general opinions of companies. You get the best value for your points if you save up for the $100 cash out. They offer the $100 cash out in bank transfer and Amazon. The Amazon gift card option used to be a physical mailed card but now its an e-gift card so that makes it even better! They offer other gift cards but they are for smaller values at worse rates so I would avoid them. Available online, on android, and on iOS.
9. iMoney - $89
Get paid to download apps! The best thing about iMoney is that the apps always credit and you can get credit for apps you have downloaded before. That’s not the case on most paid-to-download apps. Earn 15-30 cents per app and there are 3-4 new apps available each day. They offer Amazon and PayPal but PayPal has a small fee. Added this towards the end of the year and hope to make more next year. Might not be in the app store at the moment? Couldn’t find a link to put in the title.
Roll dice, get points, redeem for physical items and e-gift cards. I get the daily spin rolls every day and watch their ads for more rolls. The key to VeryDice is saving up approximately 100 rolls before rolling to have enough to get the daily doubles bonus of $0.30. Worth keeping on your phone even if it’s just for the daily spin rolls. Available on both iOS and Andoid. If you want to enter my ref code at sign up you’ll get 30 free rolls :). It is 1319422.
Sign up and receive invitations to surveys via email. Don’t do their “partner surveys”, they rarely credit and you can get stuck in an endless loop. Their non-partner surveys are awesome. They pay well for the time spent but they also have one of the best disqualification bonusses I have ever seen. Every three surveys you take, regardless of whether you disqualify or not, you get a $2 bonus. That is $0.66 per survey on top of its base pay regardless of whether you qualify or not. They pay instantly with PayPal, Amazon, or Bitcoin.
Do you like movies? Then this one’s for you. Watch, rate, and tag movie trailers to earn Amazon gift cards. Each trailer has three stages and after completing all three you will make 23.5 cents per trailer. One thing to keep in mind is that you need a physical verification card sent to a US address in order to activate your account. I completed basically every trailer that was posted over the year, so my earnings are a good estimate of what you can plan on earning.
There are three main ways to earn here: a 3 cent daily login bonus, 7 cent location rewards for opening the app when a notification appears, and surveys. If you’re going to do surveys on here do relatively short TapResearch ones. The location rewards alone are why I use this app. The one negative of this app is that the cash out minimum is $25. Definitely worth having on your phone!
This is a pretty normal survey site. They have a daily login streak bonus that can double the value of your surveys when you reach the max streak which can make a lot of them worth your time. I stopped receiving surveys, so I assume I’m banned? So be careful with this one. Cash out minimums are $25 which is higher than I would like.
Another one of my favorites. Survey Monkey Rewards is a survey app created by Survey Monkey, a big name in survey development software. Surveys all take under 3-4 minutes and pay either 25 or 35 cents based on length. I almost never disqualify, and you can cash out instantly to Amazon starting at $5. Available on Android and iOS.
Earn.com lets people pay Bitcoin to contact you. I mostly received BTC to sign up for ICOs and airdrops for random tokens. They were aquired by Coinbase so there are changes to the program. They require a LinkedIn to make an account now as well (I think). If you can get into the program still it is pretty great!
This is a sister-site to Swagbucks. I have decent success with their surveys so I use it for that. They have some other ways to earn but I don’t use them. If you have the same success with their surveys it might be worth using.
Basically a smaller and sketchier MTurk. Lots of short tasks with decent earning potential but you have to find the right type of tasks for you. I did the click, search tasks for a while. There is PayPal with a $9 minimum but if I remember right they mail you a physical card with a pin before you can cash out to verify your identity. Not for everyone but worth a look.
This one is pretty simple. Get surveys on your phone, and redeem for Amazon, Visa, PayPal, and Starbucks! Surveys range from $0.50-$10. Some are location based and involve in-store activities. The more involved the surveys are, the more they pay. Don’t expect a ton of surveys, but many of them are worth your time. Available on Android and iOS. Minimum cash out is $10.
This survey site is average at best. I am having less success with them recently because I can’t be bothered to take a 20 minute survey for $0.90. The one benefit of this site is that they have a VERY small disqualification bonus. Some people do have success taking surveys on here and the cash out minimum is $10.
Another survey provider with no disqualifications! Woohoo! You receive email notifications when you have a new survey. Surveys pay $0.50-$2 and are usually not too long. They pay via a points system and you get better rates if you save up for the higher rewards. I cash out for Amazon, and they can take a long time to deliver rewards so be patient.
MooCash pays you to download apps and then open them for 3 days once a day. I have gotten paid as much as $2 for a single app download. They don’t always credit super easily so I would only try the better paying ones. You can cash out for BTC, Amazon, PayPal, and more. You can use my ref code (EHNPNC) when you sign up for some free coins. I think it’s only available to the first 20 people.
Short surveys with minimum PayPal cashout of $15. There are short surveys to collect demographic information that pay 10 cents. If you qualify for any of the longer surveys they can pay as much as $1.50. Surveys can be sporadic so just check the site once a day. Worth the time it takes to put into it.
UsabilityHub, now rebranded to UserCrowd, pays you to give feedback on websites and products. Each task pays anywhere from 10-50 cents and the minimum cash out is $10. UserCrowd is nice because unlike other usability testing sites you don’t need to record your voice or screen. I leave it in a pinned tab on Chrome and get notifications when there is a new task. They can vary in how often you get them. I enjoy this one, give it a shot.
This app has very short surveys with guaranteed rewards. You never disqualify or anything like that. I get a notification that I have a new paid survey about once a week. Surveys pay 30 cents to start but as you “level up” they become worth slightly more. Right now mine are worth 34 cents. Cashout is at $5 via PayPal. Available on iOS and Android.
This is the best sweepstakes app I have used. You get entries into the sweepstakes by watching videos. Each video is an entry. I watch 10 videos a day and usually win either $0.50 or $1 each day. It pays via Perk points so it’s a nice supplement to your Perk routine. If this keeps being so easy to win I should make a lot more with it next year! Available on Android and iOS.
I started using Dabbl towards the very end of the year. They offer short brand-sponsored polls and videos that pay anywhere from 5-20 cents. These are super infrequent and cashing out from these alone would take the better part of a year. Where I earn with Dabbl is their non-passive ads. You get paid 1 cent per ad so I run them when I’m doing other things. It adds up. They don’t offer Amazon so I cash out for Target. Cash outs are at $5. iOS and Android.
This is a pretty fun game show app. To summarize the game, you pick a percentage that you think a product will sell out at, and if you’re within the closest few people to the right percentage you win a decent little chunk of cash. I’ve won once. You can buy discounted products on here as well. Go check it out, it’s pretty addicting. My ref code is “Leeves” if you want to throw some bonus guesses my way :).
Take short polls and quizzes and get paid 6-25 cents a day. The unfortunate thing about KinIt is that they very rarely have their gift cards in stock. When they have them in stock they have a decent selection. Still worth your time in my opinion. iOS and Android are supported.
32. Life Fun and Everything - $25
This was an invite-only survey panel that gives me a $2 survey once a month. Found it on some GPT site.
Install Panel on your phone and get paid for sharing your location data. They drastically reduced their pay rate recently so I’m not sure it’s worth it anymore. Previously you could expect to make about $25 a year.
Short polls that pay anywhere from $0.50 to $1. I get about one a week. Only downside is that the minimum cash out is $25. Various gift cards (including Amazon) are available. Definitely worth keeping on your phone. I think it’s iOS only at this time.
One of the easiest GPT sites to use. Lots of offer walls and surveys. I don’t make a lot here but basically just do daily search, daily poll, Swago, and SwagIQ. If I wasn’t banned from their surveys for some reason I might make a little more. I use swagbucks from time to time to find easy offers to do. Overall, a decent place to start of you’re experimenting with beermoney for the first time.
This app uses your location data and pays you 10 cents (sometimes more) to fill out a short poll about stores and restaurants that you go to. They recently added e-gift cards instead of physical cards so that makes it a lot more attractive to use! iOS and Android.
This is one of the better apps that give you rebates on select grocery items as you shop in-store. If you buy a lot of groceries, there is money to be made here. They also have traditional online cashback portals and offers.
This app has surveys with a more personal and fun spin. You get paid via PayPal for each task that you finish. There aren’t always tasks available but when there are, they often pay well. I had one for testing an app that paid $9! It’s a nice option for something a little different than traditional surveys.
Attapoll is a survey app that sends you more traditional router surveys (many of which are Cint surveys). You might disqualify quite a bit here depending on your demographic so I stick to the short ones. Payouts are via PayPal, Bitcoin, and Ethereum. PayPal starts at $3 (nice), ETH at $3.50, and BTC at an insane $100. On both Android and iOS.
Smores is an Android lock screen app that pays a flat $0.10 a day for unlocking your device once. Their non-passive video section pays a cent per 2 videos at the moment so that can be a decent earner as well. Cash out as low as $1 for Amazon and other gift cards. I was pretty inconsistent in my daily unlocks this year and hope to increase my earnings next year.
Very straight forward. Do surveys, get paid. Some people have success with this type of site, and others disqualify a lot. I would stick to any surveys under 10 minutes in length to avoid wasting your time. Cash out for Amazon or PayPal at $10.
This app pays you based on your steps. I have it connected to Apple Health. It took me about 9 months to earn $10 and I am pretty active. Android and iOS are both supported. Doesn’t run in the background or drain my battery from what I can tell so it’s very passive and harmless.
This is a GPT site with a few offer walls. They have good EngageMe rates as well as a 5 cent daily bonus as long as you’re making a dollar a week on offers on the site. This is basically the only truly passive income that I have made this year from running EngageMe.
44. Cross Media Panel - $10
This is a program through Google that paid you to let them have an extension on your browser and on your phone. They discontinued most of this program so I am no longer earning from them. Parts of this program still exist but I haven’t looked into it much. Probably just worth skipping over at this point.
Paytime lets you earn money for your subscriptions by watching ads and answering a few questions about them. You can only cash out once a month because it is supposed to be used for monthly subscriptions. All they do is send you $9.99 via PayPal or Venmo once you watch 40 ads. The catch with PayTime is that you need to be a student at one of the universities that they support. Check their website for the list. Overall, if you are a student it could be an easy $10 a month. Hope to use this more next year.
Get paid to play games! There is a new game every 48 hours and the top 20% of scores at the end of the time period get paid. The top player makes $7 and the payout decreases as you go down the ranks. I have won somewhere around $2.50 every game that I have made it into the top 20%. Pays via PayPal when you win. On Android and iOS. You can use share code “lucky-disk-68” if you want to give me some extra lives :).
This is a pretty bad healthy living/rewards site. I think they had a few easy ways to earn, like downloading their app, and that’s how I cashed out. There was a post about it so be looking for opportunities like these on the subreddit. I won’t be using this again.
49. Amazon Shipping History Task - $6
Look for tasks like this that get posted on the subreddit. Got paid to submit some shipping data from Amazon.
50. DailyWin - $6
This used to be a scratch card app with a non-passive video section but it seems to be dead. Move along, nothing to see here.
Take short polls. Get instantly paid small amounts of money via Paypal. Pays in GBP so if your currency is USD you get to take advantage of that increase in value. Polls are spotty but worth it due to the instant payout (so no minimum or anything like that). iOS and Android.
Answer polls and get paid! Pays via PayPal at $5. Very simple and fun to use. Just answer the polls whenever they are available and watch the points add up. Added this at the end of the year so hope to expand on this next year.
53. Brand Insights Polling - $5
I honestly have no clue how I got paid by them. I think I took a survey that I found from a Facebook ad or something?
Get paid to download apps! They don’t pay the best and sometimes have a hard time crediting but still might be worth a shot. The very best paying apps pay around 30 cents. Some pay pennies. Available on iOS and Android. You can use my invite code “4848a6” and get a few free points.
This app sends you occasional very short surveys from Google that pay 10-20 cents. Using Google services and being mobile seems to increase the number of surveys that you get. Some people get a lot, some get less. Worth just having on your phone. The iOS app pays via PayPal and the Android app just give you Google Play credits.
This app has polls for college students to take. I think you need a .edu email address? Their rewards kinda suck so I stopped using it but they had an offer to cashout for $5 bitcoin to the Ben bitcoin wallet so I did that. Maybe worth it depending on what reward options they have at the time. Android and iOS.
Scan receipts and get paid. I get 2.5 cents per receipt on average. They also have products that you can get rebates on when you buy (sorta like iBotta). They only accept grocery store receipts. A good addition to your receipt scanning routine.
This is one of the most straight forward receipt scanning apps. It pays 1-5 cents a receipt (typically 2 cents). Cash out starts at $1 for Amazon or PayPal which is way lower than most receipt apps. Very nice. Hope to earn more with this next year. Has both Android and iOS apps.
This app pays you $0.50 per sign to submit help wanted signs that you find around your city. I have never actually submitted a sign but got paid $0.10 per sign to verify the validity of other people’s signs. I’ve seen people make pretty decent money on here.
This one seemed cool at first. Take short polls, get paid $0.25 instantly via PayPal. The problem is that I never get polls anymore. Others have had the same experience. You might be able to squeak a few cents out of it. Android and iOS.
Hope this helps you guys out, and if you have any questions let me know! Let me know what I should add to my routine :). Thanks to everyone who contributes to this subreddit because I found many of these programs thanks to you! Have a great 2019!
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