Global internet / internet everywhere is being worked on with Space-x "StarLink", thousands of satellites connecting everyone globally to the internet. Therefore infrastructure for the digital currencies,
Too private makes it ideal for illegal activities. / Can't be controlled as easy, taxed as easy.
All of the above is a partial list of factors devaluing the Dollar and trust in it from several ways and views. At the end of the day it has a huge amount of enemies, that are all looking for ways to get out of it. Some of what I'm seeing personally.
Prices are outpacing wages.
Education is required for a good job vs how things used to be, jobs are getting more technical for same wage value.
Real Estate has been rapidly climbing in price, even homes that haven't been remodeled. A $80,000 home in my area is now $180k in the last 6-7 years. Wages haven't moved.
Rents have been climbing with the real estate prices.
Taxes have increased on said real estate
Insurance cost are up
Repair costs are up
It is a death spiral for the working person, where it used to be "No more than 30% of your wage going to housing" It is now well over 50%....Just look at this recent post in Frugalhttps://www.reddit.com/Frugal/comments/ifqah1/is_it_normal_for_a_third_to_a_half_of_you?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3 This death spiral I foresee getting worse. And historically any "tax" / regulation cost will just be passed down to the consumer in form of increased prices until people / businesses move elsewhere as we've seen in several cities around the US. So what can we do? Buy Gold! Silver! Bitcoin! Stocks! I hear people roar, They aren't exactly wrong as history shows... but have you considered the 30-40% tax on the "gain"? Even when that asset buys the same value before tax? What if the government makes it illegal like the 1933 order: 6102 Where you couldn't own gold for nearly 50 years? You're frozen out, or even out on taxes (which will likely be more strict and controlled later in time). I'd say Invest in things that will
Help you be independent
Can help you save
That you will use anyways in normal living
Things that can be productive not only for you, but for others $
Bonus points if its easy to trade off / has demand
Extra bonus if it is durable (lasts many years)
Helps your health
Metals are the next step when a person has plenty of the above. You get to a point where you have hundreds of thousands, if not millions that you need to condense into something real. It is all about the savings or productivity gain of the investment. For instance I would wager that many preppers have gotten more use / value out of a $800 clothes washer than a $800 rifle. (have you ever had to do manual laundry???) Sure the rifle will hold value...but it often doesn't pay you back with time / what it saved and / or what it has produced during its life unless you are using it. Same can be said of security cameras, a generator, a tractor, trailer, garden, tools, ect. Look at history even, in countries that have experienced hyperinflation people that already had tangibles they regularly use were way ahead. It could even be honey, a tool, extra maintenance parts, can of food, that bottle of medicine, a computer to keep your intel on point, (cough # PrepperIntel plug) use of your equipment to do or make something for someone. Real Estate is good too, it rides inflation well and has many ways of being productive. Your metals could be sitting there like the rifle, and could be subject to hot debate and laws. Meanwhile that garden is paying back, chainsaw is helping saw up wood, or your tractor is helping a job, your tools just helped you fix something / saved you much loss, Your security stopped a loss not by a person, but an random animal stealing things. Or that $25,000 solar array is paying you back by the day in spades...while making you independent...running all your tools you're using to make things to sell, and even heating / cooling some of the house with the extra juice while places around you experience rolling blackouts. You were even smart and took the current 24% tax benefit the government has saving you $5000 on it for batteries. Don't get me started if you have an electric vehicle with solar... I'm rambling at this point...and all those stealthy / direct and passive background savings...even if the crap doesn't hit the fan. So anyways, With out of control central banks and big governments, digital currencies, How do you think it will play out? Are we heading to dystopia?
I have matched up with at least 9 gorgeous Chinese women from Hong Kong or Singapore who seem to follow a similar pattern, so I think this must be a scam. I wasn’t foolish enough to go all the way through with this to verify, but I figured someone else has and can validate my suspicions.
Chinese girl matches with you - not in your geographic area
Chinese girl is always young, beautiful, and wealthy (lifestyle includes golfing, high fashion brands, expensive resorts in photos)
Chinese girl asks you for your WhatsApp almost immediately; she sends messages daily and even throws in some cute videos or pics to bait you. She may occasionally actually call you for a brief moment (to make you think it is a real woman but I suspect there is one girl calling hundreds of guys for a minute per guy)
She asks you about your profession or business if you have one and says she does something very similar (to build trust and affinity)
She casually brings up Forex trading and says she makes lots of money trading Bitcoin - USD or some other variation on forex
She tells you to try it, that she will teach you how or even offers to introduce you to her teacher She will send you screen shots of her earnings (one woman sent me a screen shot showing she made $75,000 on a trade)
Once you agree and download MetaTrader 4 as instructed (even though there is a Version 5 out), she directs you on when to execute sample trades (usually late at night during HK or Singapore opening hours)
After you do several simulations (mine generated up to $14,000 per trade in profit), she asks how much you will invest in real money. She or her teacher suggest you start with $50,000 USD or more.
If you prove useless or say you are not interested, she will stop contacting you.
About next FLEA changes and RMT (yes, one more post, but you will like it. Or not)
Okay guys. (trailer: First of all i wanna apologize for my english, hehe. Its not my main language and i will do a lot of different mistakes in words or sentences.) This is a new(one more roflmao) thread about FLEA changes in next wipe. To keep you in this discussion i will open my cards first: i am RMT seller. Yes guys, im a man, who selling items, stuff and currency to other players in EFT. You can blame me, shit on me here, do whatever you want, but the fact - i don't care about your opinion here. Deal with it, we are exist. Also i wanna warn - im not a speedhackewallhackeaimhackebotter etc. If we will exclude my RMT side - you will see the same regular player as all of you. Mb he spent less time in IRL (because i was need to farm 12/7), but he is a still regular player. Running in raids, shoot other ppl, win fights, die in fights, loot stuff, sell stuff on flea market and etc. And i came here not to advertise RMT (that's important thing - i don't recommend to buy currency in game, when you getting in it first time). But who cares about my opinion. Customer wanna get stuff - i selling stuff. I came here, because saw a lot of ppl in different threads, who think, that new system in flea market (you can't sell stuff from PVP result, and can't sell stuff if you "run trough") will someway affect RMT and did it harder. And because they think, that "run trough" changes will affect hatchlings(here i calls pistol mans too) runners. No guys. You all wrong. That will affect all regular players, and affect hard as fuck. But not the RMT. And not the hatchlers. To explain my position we need to come in EFT history and look for some points:
Before Flea market there was not much sellers, also not much customers (compare to nowadays ofc).
But the fact is - sellers trade money/items trough raid. Im sure a lot of you saw clips about killing 2 ppl on the factory with money/item cases in bags near extract point or on spawn. Ye, that is was the way to transfer without flea. I dunno what's cost of stuff was, but it doesn't matter much, because price changes from wipe to end-game, as from high to low. Not need to be Einstein to understand that. Also there was some naked guys who run in to 310 (as example) room for bitcoins or lions. Not much, but they was.
After flea market appears - RMT grow a bit and becomes easier, sellers able to trade trough market (i won't explain how and with what ways, you understand why xD ), so it makes a bit easier to do deals. But money transfer trough raid still exists, because you save currency from flea's FEE. You pack roubles in to doc-cases and drop to customer, im sure a lot of you did it with your friends and it looks normal. Price of RMT floated as usual - from high to low, from wipe to end-game times. Still regular situation. Also amount of naked-hatchlers grow as fck. (remember a days, when LEDX was added to shoreline? or a days, when reserve was released and streamers explored a best-loot-routes for naked guys?)
BSG limited money, that PMC can carry in inventory ( you can't take more than 200k roubles in any PMC's slot). So sellers lost their way to drag-n-drop currency to customers in raid. And do you know what happens with prices? They FUCKING GROW UP x2-x3 times. Yes yes, you read it right. For example from 1$ usd / 1 million it becomes 2.5-3$ usd / 1 million (its not current prices, just as example for low-brain ppl).
And RMT becomes VERY-VERY-VERY effective, because you still spending SAME time to get in-game currency, but customer pays WAY MORE(much?) for it. Yeah guys, when Nikita think "hey, we will stop them from trading money in raids, RMT will die", situation becomes for us, sellers, MUCH better. He just increased price of items and currency during mid-wipe time. But regular players now have a problems during folding currency stacks trough PMC's inventory, lol. More mouse movements in stash. Anyway thank you, Nikita. Also new weight-system changes amount of hatchlers, it's grow again btw. And here we go in-to the main thing, that i wanna talk about:
If BSG will keep that changes on flea market, when you can't trade stuff for currency without FIR mark - it will increase price of currency and items much higher, than was whenever(i mean in IRL ofc) And customers will still buy it. And sellers will still have ways to transfer items trough raid (remember "1" point what i talked about?). Yes, we won't able to deliver currency in any way (im sure we will, its not hard to find a hole in the system), but we will able to transfer armors, guns, cases, ammo and other stuff. Its not a big deal - to run trough night raid on non-popular server with items in case, using night-glasses and flireaper. So. RMT will still exists. We will just come back in the days, before flea. Not a big deal, actually.
The price of all items will fcking grow (i mean in-game price). Yeah guys. For example: you won't be able to buy 995 ammo for 1.8k roubles (that's the price now?). They will cost x2 higher. Because the amount of bullets(and other stuff too) on flea will dropped down dramatically. Because when sm1 will kill me in raid with my stuff (i prefer to use HK loaded 995) - he won't able to sell my 995 on flea. As bought ammo from traders too.
He will able to sell bullets from crafting table, but all components, that needs to craft 995 (green powder and FM OFZ shell) will grow in price too -> price of ammo grow. Or price of the killa's armor. Or slick. Whatever - price of every loadout item will grow. Also low lvl players won't able to buy any good helmet from flea market (you can't craft airframe/exfil, roflmao). And here is result of these changes:
People who can do good pvp fights and spend a lot of time in game - still will be with money, and use best gear (do you remember, that lvl 5 and lvl 6 armor can be looted still from raiders/bosses?)
When the rest, and biggest part of players - will just suck a big carrot. To beat a geared man you need ammo. To buy ammo you need currency and trader's level. To get currency you need to sell stuff. To grab stuff you need to do successful raid without any PVP fights. Looks hilarious, when you can spawn on map and die in 10 seconds, because spawn points are shit. And points of interest on maps are always same (kiba's store/marked rooms/rooms with PC/rooms on shoreline and etc etc etc), that results to same pvp-fight places.
Hatchling guys will still exists. Do you know why? Because THEY DON'T NEED TO SURVIVE IN RAID. Just look: "you can't sell item on flea market without FIR mark. Player will lose FIR mark if he will do "run trough".
Okay bro. But "run trough" is not the same thing, as "die in fight". And naked-hatchlers not need to SURVIVE and finish the raid. ROFLMAO. They need only: loot item in pouch, die from scav/drop from roof/die from barb wire and etc etc etc. Hilarious, don't you think? They still can grab gpu/ledx/red-card and die from scav, to sell it on flea market. ROFLMAO. FOR WHAT THESE CHANGES ARE? They affect nothing. At all. IF they will change "die without enough XP points will affect items to lose FIR mark" - it will again AFFECT REGULAR players. Just imagine - you loot an morphine/saleva/tushonka/blablabla for quest from hidden stash and was sniped by any playe or was unlucky and died from scav in the beginning of the raid.. your item lose FIR mark.. for no reason. Or you found (or spawned as SCAV with) a red-card and wanna trade it on flea market. But you understand - if you will die - you will lose that option(losing FIR mark again). And here is a stupid situation: you need to extract, but you need more XP to be "not runner trough". So you need to loot/fight more to have an option for selling red card. Creating artificial risk for players, with no-reason. Again - looks hilarious in current state. Hardcore game, that declares "don't fight without reason" just pushing players to fight, to get XP, for successful finishing raid. ROFLMAO. Think about it, its a "look from other side" here. That changes does not create any "hardcore state" (a lot of ppl played without FLEA and that's still not a hardcore state, roflmao) as it should be, no problems for RMT. No troubles for naked-runners. Only new troubles for new regular players, without any logical reason. If bsg wanna limit "end-game" loot for all players - they should rework all maps, raiders and bosses. (like AI brains, chance of spawn, size of maps, etc etc) But not limiting FLEA market selling PVP stuff. Also remove FLEA market from the game. You can agree with my opinion, or disagree, i don't care, but price of currency will show us who right xD. Gl in da game, wish you more GPU-LEDX-REDCARDS into your pouch.
36mm Ballon Bleu de Cartier Ronda Quartz w/White MOP Dial (V6 Factory) from Chazingtime
Hi Everyone! I'm so excited to post what everyone needs right now (j/k) : A watch review, and a very nice one at that! I've been on a serious Cartier jewelry kick for the past year or so and I've fallen in love with the Ballon Bleu. This is my second rep watch purchase (the first being a 31 mm Rolex DateJust w/a 2816 movement in 2015 that's still going great). Unfortunately I was a bit thirsty and being cheap during a DH Gate binge that I purchased what I thought was a decent one in December via DHL and got a complete shitter for $93! I took pics of it and immediately shipped it back via USPS Priority Mail International ($31) for a full refund ($126), which I received two weeks later. I totally forgot that I'm a longtime member of RWI and realized that I could have gotten a much better watch for only $100 more. I checked the Trusted Dealers (TD) list and saw that Chazingtime and PureTime had the watch I wanted, a Ronda Quartz, because I didn't want to get it serviced like my DateJust rep. I chose 36 mm size because I'm tall and wanted something bigger than my Rolex. It was a LONG and arduous process, but I'm glad to finally have it. Seller: Chazingtime Item: Ballon Bleu de Cartier watch, 36mm stainless steel bracelet with white mother-of-pearl (MOP) dial from V6 Factory. Price: $198 USD. Payment Method Used: Bank Wire. TD also accepts PayPal for established customers and WU. Price of Shipping: $35 to the USA. Order Timeline (I'm having a near-anxiety flashback just thinking about this):
1/11: Placed order. Initiated bank wire via my financial institution.
1/15: Wire received by seller's bank.
1/18: Payment acknowledged; order placed in "Processing" status, then...
RADIO SILENCE due to CNY then COVID-19 outbreak in China.
2/11: Ken from Chazingtime posted in RWI about factory delays and COVID-19 complications.
2/17: RWI and RepTime members post that V6 factory has reopened.
2/29:RepTime member posted that Chazingtime is back in business.
3/5: After not hearing anything from seller but seeing RepTime members post QC pics from the seller, I contacted him for an update. He sent QC pics immediately. I approved them.
3/7: Watch shipped via DHL through HK.
3/11: Watch received.
Seller Communication and Service-10/10 I tried to use PP but Ken immediately messaged to apologize and tell me that he only accepts it from established customers who have bought several watches from him. He gave me a really nice discount to use WU. I attempted to use it, but discovered that I'm banned from WU for some inexplicable reason (but I think it's because I have a federal security clearance for work, but I really believe that I've bought so many rep bags, hair extensions, and jewelry over the past dozen years that I got myself flagged). *face palm* I then messaged him to tell him that I was banned from using WU, so he immediately replied with his SWIFT code to have a wire transfer initiated, again with a nice discount for my trouble. I love how Ken was sooo responsive to my messages. I emailed him at 2:15 am EST and he replied immediately with the QC photos even though he was swamped with fulfilling new and established orders after the holiday and factory shutdown. I'd most definitely purchase from him again. Photos:
Mine. I also included a video to show how exquisite the MOP dial is! EDITED TO ADD ADDITIONAL PICS of watchAdditional pics .
Quality - 10/10 The watch is pretty well made. The Sapphire crystal glass is thick and is literally scratch proof. The blue cabochon crown is correct, easy to pull out and set the time, and the loop that surrounds it does not gap like other reps I've seen. The dial markings are clear, the CARTIER font is properly inked and spaced and, since it's quartz movement, there's no winding needed. I was really confused about the bracelet clasp; I had to watch YT videos until I got the hang of it! Accuracy - 10/10 This watch is EVERYTHING! It came fully branded and tagged, has a nice "heft" to it, and looks incredible. It has the exact markings as the authentic, and I wouldn't hesitate to wear it in a Cartier store. Unfortunately, there aren't many auth white MOP dials to compare this one to; however, I've seen a lot of pink MOP dials on Google. I actually prefer the pink MOP but the RWI guys say that the pink MOP reps aren't 100% to the authentic and are calloutable by those who know Cartier. I think the white MOP is called silver opaline, but I'm not 100% sure of it and I love this version. I've even scanned the QC and barcode that were attached to the bracelet and they took me to the leather band version on the Cartier website! Satisfaction - 10/10 Aside from waiting nearly two months for it, I'm beyond satisfied with this gem. I've also not taken it off; I've even showered and slept in i! I'm home-bound due to my workplace shutting down, so I've got to wear it somewhere! I could have easily have worn it as a dangle, but decided not to because of the dial size and weight; I didn't want to scratch or ding it. I took it to my non-judgmental (because he and his sons repair my rep Rolex without judgment) nonagenarian watchmaker in town and he removed one link and chided me to hold on to that link and charged me only $10. It now fits pretty snug on my 7.5 inch wrist but I actually prefer it this way. (I can fit one finger under the bracelet, so it's not too tight.) Lessons Learned: I know that I would have had a much better experience had I planned my purchase sooner and not wasted time with DH Gate. I also would have received my watch within the week had I been able to use WU or PP. The entire bank wire process really wore me out and extended the processing time. I learned from RWI and RepTime that some of the TDs' credit card processing software is prone to hacking and that Bitcoin or using TransferWise or Xoom are safer options for TDs who won't accept PP. Anyway, enjoy and let me know if you have any questions. 11/10 will recommend! :)
[WTS] INTERNATIONAL COIN SALE! Coins from Japan, Mexico, Hong Kong and more!
Paypal Friends and Family accepted but would rather use bitcoin cause fees are too high for Paypal. Shipping will be from HONG KONG for 5 dollars for the first 50 grams and increases. Insurance is also an option for 5 more dollars to be insured for 500 USD. If your buying amount goes more than 500 dollars and you want to insure your package, shipping and insurance rates will change. I am not responsible for any damages or lost packages. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- *All Prices in USD* I am MORE THAN WILLING TO BARGAIN Coins
Natal Numismatic society medal RARE silver edition- 775
JM silver dragon RARE with year - 135
60g tiger tongue bar - 300
70g tiger tongue bar - 375
1897 Piastre(Chopped Mark)-180
Half Dollar 1858 *(*RAREwith Chopmarks) - 268
One Yen Year 22 *(*RAREwith Chopmarks and Gin stamp) - 185
Yuan Shikai Year 3 *(*RAREwith Chopmarks)- 300
Eight Reales 1759 -330
1876 Trade Dollar -240
1904 Straits Dollar (Chopmarks) -215
1908 Piastre - 220
Manen Two Shu - 85
Tenpo Two Shu (Cardboard Holder) - 85
Tenpo Two Shu (Clear Case) - 85
China Proof Set 1992 - 190
British Trade Dollar Mint Chopmark (日) - 145
British Trade Dollar Calcutta Life chopmark (生) (RARE, low mintage) -280
I've heard that founder of MakerDAO is not strictly against KYC. I have a message to whole community and specifically to a founder of MakerDAO Rune Christensen. I will explain using concrete examples why having KYC in MakerDAO is a grave mistake and it will lead to MakerDAO fork. Many people in the first world never actually understand why financial privacy and financial inclusion is important. Even people (in the first world) who seemingly supportive of such ideas are not able to provide any concrete examples of why it's actually important. Unfortunately, I was born in a "wrong" country (Uzbekistan) and I experienced first hand what financial exclusion actually means. I know first hand that annoying feeling when you read polite, boilerplate rejection letter from financial institution based in first world. So I had to become practical libertarian. I'm going to give you concrete examples of financial discrimination against me. Then I'm going to explain fundamental reasons why it happens. And finally, I'm going to explain my vision for DAI. Back in 2005, I lived in Uzbekistan. I had an idea to invest in US stocks. I was very naive and I didn't know anything about investing, compliance, bank transfers, KYC etc. All I knew is nice long term charts of US stocks and what P/E means. I didn't contact any US brokerage but I checked information about account opening and how to transfer money there. I approached local bank in Uzbekistan and asked how to transfer money to Bank of New York. Banker's face was like - WOW, WTF?!?! They asked me to go to private room to talk with senior manager. Senior manager of local bank in Uzbekistan asked me why I wanted to transfer money to US. They told me that it's absolutely impossible to transfer money to US/EU and pretty much anywhere. I approached nearly every local bank in the town and they told me the same. In 2012, I already lived in Moscow and acquired Russian citizenship. I got back to my old idea - investing in US stocks. I called to many US brokerages and all of them politely rejected me. Usually when I called I asked them if I can open an account with them. They told me to hold on line. After long pause, I was able to speak with "senior" support who politely explain me that Russia in their list of restricted countries and they can't open an account for me. Finally, I was able to open an account with OptionsXpress. Next challenge was to convince local Russian bank to transfer money to US. Back then in 2012, I was able to get permission to do so. So you might say - is this happy end? Fast forwarding US brokerage story to 2017, OptionsXpress was acquired by Charles Schwab. I was notified that my OptionsXpress account will be migrated to Charles Schwab platform. In 2017, I already lived in the Netherlands (but still having Russian citizenship). I wasn't happy with my stupid job in the Netherlands. I called Charles Schwab and asked if I quit my job in the Netherlands and have to return to Russia, what will happen with my account. Schwab told me that they will restrict my account, so I can't do anything except closing my account. So even if I was long term customer of OptionsXpress, Charles Schwab is not fully okay with me. Going back to 2013, I still lived in Russia. I had another idea. What if I quit my job and build some SAAS platform (or whatever) and sell my stuff to US customers. So I need some website which accept US credit cards. I contacted my Russian bank (who previously allowed me to transfer money to OptionsXpress) about steps to make in order to accept US credit cards in Russia. I've been told explicitly in email that they won't allow me to accept US credit cards under any circumstances. Back then I still believed in "the free west". So I thought - no problem, I will just open bank account abroad and do all operations from my foreign account. I planned vacation in Hong Kong. And Hong Kong is freest economy in the world. Looks like it's right place to open bank account. I contacted HSBC Hong Kong via email. Their general support assured me that I can open bank account with them if I'm foreigner. I flew to Hong Kong for vacation and visited HSBC branch. Of course, they rejected me. But they recommended me to visit last floor in their HQ building, they told me that another HSBC branch specializes on opening bank accounts for foreigners. I went there and they said minimum amount to open bank account is 10 mil HKD (1.27 mil USD). Later I learned that it's called private banking. When I relocated to the Netherlands, I asked ABN Amro staff - what's happen with my bank account if I quit/lose my job in the Netherlands and have to return back to Russia. I've been told that I can't have my dutch bank account if I go back to Russia even if I already used their bank for 2+ years. I still had idea that I would like to quit my job and do something for myself. The problem is that I'm Russian citizen and I don't have any residency which is independent from my employment. So if I quit my job in the Netherlands, I have to return back to Russia. I wanted to see how I would get payments from US/EU customers. I found Stripe Atlas, it's so exciting, they help you to incorporate in US, and even help with banking, all process of receiving credit card payments is very smooth. But as usual in my case, there is a catch - Russia in their list of restricted countries. Speaking of centralized compliance-friendly (e.g. KYC) crypto exchanges. This year I live and work in Hong Kong. Earlier this year, I thought it would be nice to have an account at local crypto exchange in Hong Kong so I can quickly transfer money from my bank account in Hong Kong to crypto exchange using FPS (local payment system for fast bank transfers). What could go wrong? After all Hong Kong is freest economy in the world, right? I submitted KYC documents to crypto exchange called Weever including copy of my Hong Kong ID as they requested. They very quickly responded that they need copy of my passport as well. I submitted copy of my Russian passport. This time they got silent. After a few days, they sent me email saying that Russia is on the US Office of Foreign Assets Control sanction list, so they just require me to fill a form about source of the funds. I told them that the source of my funds is salary, my Hong Kong bank can confirm that along with my employment contract. They got very silent after I sent them a filled form. After a week of silence I asked them - when my account get approved? They said that their compliance office will review my application soon. And they got very silent again. I waited for two or three weeks. Then I asked them again. And I immediately got email with title - Rejection for Weever Account Opening. And text of email was:
We are sorry to inform you that Weever may not be able to accept your account opening application at this stage.
Exactly the same situation I had with one crypto exchange in Europe back in 2017. Luckily I have accounts at other crypto exchanges including Gemini, one of most compliance obsessed exchange in the world. Although I don't keep my money there because I can't trust them, who knows what might come into head of their compliance officer one sunny day. By the way, I'm living and working outside of Russia for quite a few years. The situation with crypto exchanges is much worse for those who still living in Russia. I give you a few other examples of financial discrimination is not related to troubles with my Russian citizenship. Back in 2018, I still lived in the Netherlands. I logged in into my brokerage account just to buy US ETFs as I always do - SPY and QQQ. I placed my order and it failed to fill. I thought it's just a technical problem with my brokerage account. After a few failed attempts to send buy orders for SPY and QQQ, I contacted their support. What they told me was shocking and completely unexpected. They said I'm not permitted to buy US ETFs anymore as EU resident because EU passed a law to protect retail investors. So as a EU resident I'm allowed to be exposed to more risk by buying individual US stocks but I'm not allowed to reduce my risk by buying SPY because ... EU wants to protect me. I felt final result of new law. By the way, on paper their law looks fine. And the final example. It's a known fact that US public market become less attractive in recent decades. Due to heavy regulatory burden companies prefer to go public very late. So if successful unicorn startup grows from its inception/genesis to late adoption, company's valuation would be 3-5 orders of orders of magnitude. For example, if valuation of successful company at inception is 1 Mil USD, then at its very latest stage it's valuation would be 10 Bil USD. So we have 10'000 times of growth. In the best case scenario, company would go public at 1 Bil USD 5-10 years before reaching its peak 10 Bil USD. So investors in private equity could enjoy 1000 fold growth and just leave for public only last 10 fold growth stretched in time. In the worst case scenario, company would go public at 10 Bil USD, i.e. at its historical peak. But there are well known platforms to buy shares of private companies, one of such platforms is Forge Global. You can buy shares of almost all blue chip startups. You can even invest in SpaceX! But as always, there is a catch - US government wants to protect not just US citizens but all people in the world (sounds ridiculous, right?). US law requires you to have 1 Mil USD net worth or 200'000 USD annual income if you want to buy shares of non-public company. So if you are high-net worth individual you can be called "accredited investor". Funny thing is that the law intends to protect US citizens but even if you are not US citizen and never even lived in US, this law is still applies to you in practice. So if you are "poor loser", platforms like Forge Global will reject you. So high-net worth individuals have access and opportunity to Bitcoin-style multi-magnitude growth every 5-10 years. Contrary to private equity markets, US public markets is low risk/low return type of market. If you have small amount of capital, it's just glorified way to protect yourself from inflation plus some little return on top. It's not bad, US public market is a still great way to store your wealth. But I'm deeply convinced that for small capital you must seek fundamentally different type of market - high risk/high return. It's just historical luck that Bitcoin/Ethereum/etc were available for general public from day one. But in reality, viral/exponential growth is happening quite often. It's just you don't have access to such type of markets due to regulatory reasons. I intentionally described these examples of financial discrimination in full details as I experienced them because I do feel that vast majority of people in the first world honestly think that current financial system works just fine and only criminals and terrorists are banned. In reality that's not true at all. 99.999% of innocent people are completely cut off from modern financial system in the name of fighting against money laundering. Here is a big picture why it's happening. There are rich countries (so called western world) and poor countries (so called third world). Financial wall is carefully built by two sides. Authoritarian leaders of poor countries almost always want full control over their population, they don't like market economy, and since market forces don't value their crappy legal system (because it works only for close friends of authoritarian leader) they must implement strict capital control. Otherwise, all capital will run away from their country because nobody really respects their crappy legal system. It only has value under heavy gun of government. Only friends of authoritarian leader can move their money out of country but not you. Leaders of rich countries want to protect their economy from "dirty money" coming from third world. Since citizens of poor countries never vote for leaders of rich countries nobody really cares if rich country just ban everyone from poor country. It's the most lazy way to fight against money laundering - simply ban everyone from certain country. Actually if you look deeper you will see that rich countries very rarely directly ban ordinary people from third world. Usually, there is no such law which doesn't allow me to open bank account somewhere in Europe as non-EU resident. What's really happens is that US/EU government implement very harsh penalties for financial institutions if anything ever goes wrong. So what's actually happens is that financial institutions (banks, brokerages etc) do de-risking. This is the most important word you must know about traditional financial system! So if you have wrong passport, financial institution (for example) bank from rich country just doesn't want to take any risks dealing with you even if you are willing to provide full documentation about your finances. It's well known fact that banks in Hong Kong, Europe, US like to unexpectedly shutdown accounts of thousands innocent businesses due to de-risking. So it's actually de-risking is the real reason why I was rejected so many times by financial institutions in the first world!!! It's de-risking actually responsible for banning 99.999% of innocent people. So governments of rich democratic countries formally have clean hands because they are not banning ordinary people from third world directly. All dirty job is done by financial institutions but governments are well aware of that, it's just more convenient way to discriminate. And nobody actually cares! Ordinary citizens in rich countries are never exposed to such problems and they really don't care about people in third world, after all they are not citizens of US/EU/UK/CH/CA/HK/SG/JP/AU/NZ. And now are you ready for the most hilarious part? If you are big corrupt bureaucrat from Russia you are actually welcome by the first world financial institutions! All Russian's junta keep their stolen money all across Europe and even in US. You might wonder how this is possible if the western financial system is so aggressive in de-risking. Here is a simple equation which financial institution should solve when they decide whether to open an account for you or not: Y - R = net profit Where: Y - how much profit they can make with you; R - how much regulatory risk they take while working with you; That's it! It's very simple equation. So if you are really big junta member from Russia you are actually welcome according to this equation. Banks have special name for serving (ultra) high-net worth individuals, it's called private banking. It's has nothing to do with the fact that bank is private. It's just fancy name for banking for rich. So what's usually happen in real world. Some Estonian or Danish bank got caught with large scale money laundering from Russia. European leaders are ashamed in front of their voters. They implement new super harsh law against money laundering to keep their voters happy. Voters are ordinary people, they don't care about details of new regulations. So banks get scared and abruptly shutdown ALL accounts of Russian customers. And European voters are happy. Modern money laundering laws are like shooting mouse in your house using bazooka! It's very efficient to kill mouse, right? Now imagine world without financial borders. It's hard to do so because we are all get so used to current status quo of traditional financial system. But with additional effort you can start asking questions - if Internet economy is so global and it doesn't really matter where HQ of startup is located, why they are all concentrated in just a few tiny places like Silicon Valley and ... well, that's mostly it if you count the biggest unicorns! Another question would be - why so many talented russian, indian, chinese programmers just go to the same places like San Francisco, London and make super rich companies like Amazon, Google, Facebook, Apple to get even richer? If all you need is laptop and access to internet, why you don't see any trade happening between first and third world? Well actually there is a trade between first and third world but it's not exactly what I want to see. Usually third world countries sell their natural resources through giant corporations to the first world. So it's possible to get access to the first world market from third world but this access usually granted only to big and established companies (and usually it means not innovative). Unicorns are created through massive parallel experiment. Every week bunch of new startups are created in Silicon Valley. Thousands and thousands startups are created in Silicon Valley with almost instant access to global market. Just by law of large numbers you have a very few of them who later become unicorns and dominate the world. But if you have wrong passport and you are located in "wrong" country where every attempt to access global market is very costly, then you most likely not to start innovative startup in the first place. In the best case scenario, you just create either local business or just local copy-paste startup (copied from the west) oriented on (relatively small) domestic market. Obviously in such setup it's predictable that places like Silicon Valley will have giant advantage and as a result all unicorns get concentrated in just a few tiny places. In the world without financial barriers there will be much smaller gap between rich and poor countries. With low barrier of entry, it won't be a game when winner takes all. Whole architecture of decentralized cryptocurrencies is intended to remove middle man and make transactions permissionless. Governments are inherently opposite to that, they are centralized and permissioned. Therefore, decentralized cryptocurrencies are fundamentally incompatible with traditional financial system which is full of middle mans and regulations (i.e. permissions). Real value of crypto are coming from third world, not the first world. People are buying crypto in rich countries just want to invest. Their financial system and their fiat money are more or less already working for them. So there is no immediate urgency to get rid of fiat money in the first world. So the first world citizens buying crypto on centralized KYCd exchanges are essentially making side bet on the success of crypto in third world. Real and natural environment of cryptocurrencies is actually dark OTC market in places like Venezuela and China. But cryptocurrencies like Bitcoin and Ethereum have a big limitation to wide adoption in third world - high volatility. So the real target audience is oppressed (both by their own government and by first world governments) ordinary citizens of third world countries yet they are least who can afford to take burden of high volatility. Right now, Tether is a big thing for dark markets across the world (by the way, dark market doesn't automatically imply bad!). But Tether soon or later be smashed by US/EU regulators. The only real and working permissionless stable cryptocurrency (avoiding hyped word - stablecoin) is DAI. DAI is the currency for post-Tether world to lead dark OTC market around the world and subvert fiat currencies of oppressive third world governments. Once DAI become de-facto widespread currency in shadow economy in all of third world, then it will be accepted (after many huge push backs from governments) as a new reality. I'm talking about 10-20+ years time horizon. But if MakerDAO chooses the route of being compliance friendly then DAI will lose its real target audience (i.e. third world). I can not imagine US/EU calmly tolerate someone buying US stocks and using as a collateral to issue another security (i.e. DAI) which is going to be traded somewhere in Venezuela! You can not be compliance friendly and serve people in Venezuela. Facebook's Libra was stupidest thing I've seen. It's extremely stupid to ask permission from the first world regulators to serve third world and create borderless economy. Another stupid thing is to please third world governments as well. For example, Libra (if ever run) will not serve Indian, Chinese, Venezuelan people. Who is then going to use stupid Libra? Hipsters in Silicon Valley? Why? US dollars are good enough already.
Transcript of discussion between an ASIC designer and several proof-of-work designers from #monero-pow channel on Freenode this morning
[08:07:01] lukminer contains precompiled cn/r math sequences for some blocks: https://lukminer.org/2019/03/09/oh-kay-v4r-here-we-come/ [08:07:11] try that with RandomX :P [08:09:00] tevador: are you ready for some RandomX feedback? it looks like the CNv4 is slowly stabilizing, hashrate comes down... [08:09:07] how does it even make sense to precompile it? [08:09:14] mine 1% faster for 2 minutes? [08:09:35] naturally we think the entire asic-resistance strategy is doomed to fail :) but that's a high-level thing, who knows. people may think it's great. [08:09:49] about RandomX: looks like the cache size was chosen to make it GPU-hard [08:09:56] looking forward to more docs [08:11:38] after initial skimming, I would think it's possible to make a 10x asic for RandomX. But at least for us, we will only make an ASIC if there is not a total ASIC hostility there in the first place. That's better for the secret miners then. [08:13:12] What I propose is this: we are working on an Ethash ASIC right now, and once we have that working, we would invite tevador or whoever wants to come to HK/Shenzhen and we walk you guys through how we would make a RandomX ASIC. You can then process this input in any way you like. Something like that. [08:13:49] unless asics (or other accelerators) re-emerge on XMR faster than expected, it looks like there is a little bit of time before RandomX rollout [08:14:22] 10x in what measure? $/hash or watt/hash? [08:14:46] watt/hash [08:15:19] so you can make 10 times more efficient double precisio FPU? [08:16:02] like I said let's try to be productive. You are having me here, let's work together! [08:16:15] continue with RandomX, publish more docs. that's always helpful. [08:16:37] I'm trying to understand how it's possible at all. Why AMD/Intel are so inefficient at running FP calculations? [08:18:05] midipoet ([email protected]/web/irccloud.com/x-vszshqqxwybvtsjm) has joined #monero-pow [08:18:17] hardware development works the other way round. We start with 1) math then 2) optimization priority 3) hw/sw boundary 4) IP selection 5) physical implementation [08:22:32] This still doesn't explain at which point you get 10x [08:23:07] Weren't you the ones claiming "We can accelerate ProgPoW by a factor of 3x to 8x." ? I find it hard to believe too. [08:30:20] sure [08:30:26] so my idea: first we finish our current chip [08:30:35] from simulation to silicon :) [08:30:40] we love this stuff... we do it anyway [08:30:59] now we have a communication channel, and we don't call each other names immediately anymore: big progress! [08:31:06] you know, we russians have a saying "it was smooth on paper, but they forgot about ravines" [08:31:12] So I need a bit more details [08:31:16] ha ha. good! [08:31:31] that's why I want to avoid to just make claims [08:31:34] let's work [08:31:40] RandomX comes in Sep/Oct, right? [08:31:45] Maybe [08:32:20] We need to audit it first [08:32:31] ok [08:32:59] we don't make chips to prove sw devs that their assumptions about hardware are wrong. especially not if these guys then promptly hardfork and move to the next wrong assumption :) [08:33:10] from the outside, this only means that hw & sw are devaluing each other [08:33:24] neither of us should do this [08:33:47] we are making chips that can hopefully accelerate more crypto ops in the future [08:33:52] signing, verifying, proving, etc. [08:34:02] PoW is just a feature like others [08:34:18] sech1: is it easy for you to come to Hong Kong? (visa-wise) [08:34:20] or difficult? [08:34:33] or are you there sometimes? [08:34:41] It's kind of far away [08:35:13] we are looking forward to more RandomX docs. that's the first step. [08:35:31] I want to avoid that we have some meme "Linzhi says they can accelerate XYZ by factor x" .... "ha ha ha" [08:35:37] right? we don't want that :) [08:35:39] doc is almost finished [08:35:40] What docs do you need? It's described pretty good [08:35:41] so I better say nothing now [08:35:50] we focus on our Ethash chip [08:36:05] then based on that, we are happy to walk interested people through the design and what else it can do [08:36:22] that's a better approach from my view than making claims that are laughed away (rightfully so, because no silicon...) [08:36:37] ethash ASIC is basically a glorified memory controller [08:36:39] sech1: tevador said something more is coming (he just did it again) [08:37:03] yes, some parts of RandomX are not described well [08:37:10] like dataset access logic [08:37:37] RandomX looks like progpow for CPU [08:37:54] yes [08:38:03] it is designed to reflect CPU [08:38:34] so any ASIC for it = CPU in essence [08:39:04] of course there are still some things in regular CPU that can be thrown away for RandomX [08:40:20] uncore parts are not used, but those will use very little power [08:40:37] except for memory controller [08:41:09] I'm just surprised sometimes, ok? let me ask: have you designed or taped out an asic before? isn't it risky to make assumptions about things that are largely unknown? [08:41:23] I would worry [08:41:31] that I get something wrong... [08:41:44] but I also worry like crazy that CNv4 will blow up, where you guys seem to be relaxed [08:42:06] I didn't want to bring up anything RandomX because CNv4 is such a nailbiter... :) [08:42:15] how do you guys know you don't have asics in a week or two? [08:42:38] we don't have experience with ASIC design, but RandomX is simply designed to exactly fit CPU capabilities, which is the best you can do anyways [08:43:09] similar as ProgPoW did with GPUs [08:43:14] some people say they want to do asic-resistance only until the vast majority of coins has been issued [08:43:21] that's at least reasonable [08:43:43] yeah but progpow totally will not work as advertised :) [08:44:08] yeah, I've seen that comment about progpow a few times already [08:44:11] which is no surprise if you know it's just a random sales story to sell a few more GPUs [08:44:13] RandomX is not permanent, we are expecting to switch to ASIC friendly in a few years if possible [08:44:18] yes [08:44:21] that makes sense [08:44:40] linzhi-sonia: how so? will it break or will it be asic-able with decent performance gains? [08:44:41] are you happy with CNv4 so far? [08:45:10] ah, long story. progpow is a masterpiece of deception, let's not get into it here. [08:45:21] if you know chip marketing it makes more sense [08:45:24] linzhi-sonia: So far? lol! a bit early to tell, don't you think? [08:45:35] the diff is coming down [08:45:41] first few hours looked scary [08:45:43] I remain skeptical: I only see ASICs being reasonable if they are already as ubiquitous as smartphones [08:45:46] yes, so far so good [08:46:01] we kbew the diff would not come down ubtil affter block 75 [08:46:10] yes [08:46:22] but first few hours it looks like only 5% hashrate left [08:46:27] looked [08:46:29] now it's better [08:46:51] the next worry is: when will "unexplainable" hashrate come back? [08:47:00] you hope 2-3 months? more? [08:47:05] so give it another couple of days. will probably overshoot to the downside, and then rise a bit as miners get updated and return [08:47:22] 3 months minimum turnaround, yes [08:47:28] nah [08:47:36] don't underestimate asicmakers :) [08:47:54] you guys don't get #1 priority on chip fabs [08:47:56] 3 months = 90 days. do you know what is happening in those 90 days exactly? I'm pretty sure you don't. same thing as before. [08:48:13] we don't do any secret chips btw [08:48:21] 3 months assumes they had a complete design ready to go, and added the last minute change in 1 day [08:48:24] do you know who is behind the hashrate that is now bricked? [08:48:27] innosilicon? [08:48:34] hyc: no no, and no. :) [08:48:44] hyc: have you designed or taped out a chip before? [08:48:51] yes, many years ago [08:49:10] then you should know that 90 days is not a fixed number [08:49:35] sure, but like I said, other makers have greater demand [08:49:35] especially not if you can prepare, if you just have to modify something, or you have more programmability in the chip than some people assume [08:50:07] we are chipmakers, we would never dare to do what you guys are doing with CNv4 :) but maybe that just means you are cooler! [08:50:07] and yes, programmability makes some aspect of turnaround easier [08:50:10] all fine [08:50:10] I hope it works! [08:50:28] do you know who is behind the hashrate that is now bricked? [08:50:29] inno? [08:50:41] we suspect so, but have no evidence [08:50:44] maybe we can try to find them, but we cannot spend too much time on this [08:50:53] it's probably not so much of a secret [08:51:01] why should it be, right? [08:51:10] devs want this cat-and-mouse game? devs get it... [08:51:35] there was one leak saying it's innosilicon [08:51:36] so you think 3 months, ok [08:51:43] inno is cool [08:51:46] good team [08:51:49] IP design house [08:51:54] in Wuhan [08:52:06] they send their people to conferences with fake biz cards :) [08:52:19] pretending to be other companies? [08:52:26] sure [08:52:28] ha ha [08:52:39] so when we see them, we look at whatever card they carry and laugh :) [08:52:52] they are perfectly suited for secret mining games [08:52:59] they made at most $6 million in 2 months of mining, so I wonder if it was worth it [08:53:10] yeah. no way to know [08:53:15] but it's good that you calculate! [08:53:24] this is all about cost/benefit [08:53:25] then you also understand - imagine the value of XMR goes up 5x, 10x [08:53:34] that whole "asic resistance" thing will come down like a house of cards [08:53:41] I would imagine they sell immediately [08:53:53] the investor may fully understand the risk [08:53:57] the buyer [08:54:13] it's not healthy, but that's another discussion [08:54:23] so mid-June [08:54:27] let's see [08:54:49] I would be susprised if CNv4 ASICs show up at all [08:54:56] surprised* [08:54:56] why? [08:55:05] is only an economic question [08:55:12] yeah should be interesting. FPGAs will be near their limits as well [08:55:16] unless XMR goes up a lot [08:55:19] no, not *only*. it's also a technology question [08:55:44] you believe CNv4 is "asic resistant"? which feature? [08:55:53] it's not [08:55:59] cnv4 = Rabdomx ? [08:56:03] no [08:56:07] cnv4=cryptinight/r [08:56:11] ah [08:56:18] CNv4 is the one we have now, I think [08:56:21] since yesterday [08:56:30] it's plenty enough resistant for current XMR price [08:56:45] that may be, yes! [08:56:55] I look at daily payouts. XMR = ca. 100k USD / day [08:57:03] it can hold until October, but it's not asic resistant [08:57:23] well, last 24h only 22,442 USD :) [08:57:32] I think 80 h/s per watt ASICs are possible for CNv4 [08:57:38] linzhi-sonia where do you produce your chips? TSMC? [08:57:44] I'm cruious how you would expect to build a randomX ASIC that outperforms ARM cores for efficiency, or Intel cores for raw speed [08:57:48] curious [08:58:01] yes, tsmc [08:58:21] Our team did the world's first bitcoin asic, Avalon [08:58:25] and upcoming 2nd gen Ryzens (64-core EPYC) will be a blast at RandomX [08:58:28] designed and manufactured [08:58:53] still being marketed? [08:59:03] linzhi-sonia: do you understand what xmr wants to achieve, community-wise? [08:59:14] Avalon? as part of Canaan Creative, yes I think so. [08:59:25] there's not much interesting oing on in SHA256 [08:59:29] Inge-: I would think so, but please speak [08:59:32] hyc: yes [09:00:28] linzhi-sonia: i am curious to hear your thoughts. I am fairly new to this space myself... [09:00:51] oh [09:00:56] we are grandpas, and grandmas [09:01:36] yet I have no problem understanding why ASICS are currently reviled. [09:01:48] xmr's main differentiators to, let's say btc, are anonymity and fungibility [09:01:58] I find the client terribly slow btw [09:02:21] and I think the asic-forking since last may is wrong, doesn't create value and doesn't help with the project objectives [09:02:25] which "the client" ? [09:02:52] Monero GUI client maybe [09:03:12] MacOS, yes [09:03:28] What exactly is slow? [09:03:30] linzhi-sonia: I run my own node, and use the CLI and Monerujo. Have not had issues. [09:03:49] staying in sync [09:03:49] linzhi-sonia: decentralization is also a key principle [09:03:56] one that Bitcoin has failed to maintain [09:04:39] hmm [09:05:00] looks fairly decentralized to me. decentralization is the result of 3 goals imo: resilient, trustless, permissionless [09:05:28] don't ask a hardware maker about physical decentralization. that's too ideological. we focus on logical decentralization. [09:06:11] physical decentralization is important. with bulk of bitnoin mining centered on Chinese hydroelectric dams [09:06:19] have you thought about including block data in the PoW? [09:06:41] yes, of course. [09:07:39] is that already in an algo? [09:08:10] hyc: about "centered on chinese hydro" - what is your source? the best paper I know is this: https://coinshares.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2018/11/Mining-Whitepaper-Final.pdf [09:09:01] linzhi-sonia: do you mine on your ASICs before you sell them? [09:09:13] besides testing of course [09:09:45] that paper puts Chinese btc miners at 60% max [09:10:05] tevador: I think everybody learned that that is not healthy long-term! [09:10:16] because it gives the chipmaker a cost advantage over its own customers [09:10:33] and cost advantage leads to centralization (physical and logical) [09:10:51] you guys should know who finances progpow and why :) [09:11:05] but let's not get into this, ha ha. want to keep the channel civilized. right OhGodAGirl ? :) [09:11:34] tevador: so the answer is no! 100% and definitely no [09:11:54] that "self-mining" disease was one of the problems we have now with asics, and their bad reputation (rightfully so) [09:13:08] I plan to write a nice short 2-page paper or so on our chip design process. maybe it's interesting to some people here. [09:13:15] basically the 5 steps I mentioned before, from math to physical [09:13:32] linzhi-sonia: the paper you linked puts 48% of bitcoin mining in Sichuan. the total in China is much more than 60% [09:13:38] need to run it by a few people to fix bugs, will post it here when published [09:14:06] hyc: ok! I am just sharing the "best" document I know today. it definitely may be wrong and there may be a better one now. [09:14:18] hyc: if you see some reports, please share [09:14:51] hey I am really curious about this: where is a PoW algo that puts block data into the PoW? [09:15:02] the previous paper I read is from here http://hackingdistributed.com/2018/01/15/decentralization-bitcoin-ethereum/ [09:15:38] hyc: you said that already exists? (block data in PoW) [09:15:45] it would make verification harder [09:15:49] linzhi-sonia: https://the-eye.eu/public/Books/campdivision.com/PDF/Computers%20General/Privacy/bitcoin/meh/hashimoto.pdf [09:15:51] but for chips it would be interesting [09:15:52] we discussed the possibility about a year ago https://www.reddit.com/Monero/comments/8bshrx/what_we_need_to_know_about_proof_of_work_pow/ [09:16:05] oh good links! thanks! need to read... [09:16:06] I think that paper by dryja was original [09:17:53] since we have a nice flow - second question I'm very curious about: has anyone thought about in-protocol rewards for other functions? [09:18:55] we've discussed micropayments for wallets to use remote nodes [09:18:55] you know there is a lot of work in other coins about STARK provers, zero-knowledge, etc. many of those things very compute intense, or need to be outsourced to a service (zether). For chipmakers, in-protocol rewards create an economic incentive to accelerate those things. [09:19:50] whenever there is an in-protocol reward, you may get the power of ASICs doing something you actually want to happen [09:19:52] it would be nice if there was some economic reward for running a fullnode, but no one has come up with much more than that afaik [09:19:54] instead of fighting them off [09:20:29] you need to use asics, not fight them. that's an obvious thing to say for an asicmaker... [09:20:41] in-protocol rewards can be very powerful [09:20:50] like I said before - unless the ASICs are so useful they're embedded in every smartphone, I dont see them being a positive for decentralization [09:21:17] if they're a separate product, the average consumer is not going to buy them [09:21:20] now I was talking about speedup of verifying, signing, proving, etc. [09:21:23] they won't even know what they are [09:22:07] if anybody wants to talk about or design in-protocol rewards, please come talk to us [09:22:08] the average consumer also doesn't use general purpose hardware to secure blockchains either [09:22:14] not just for PoW, in fact *NOT* for PoW [09:22:32] it requires sw/hw co-design [09:23:10] we are in long-term discussions/collaboration over this with Ethereum, Bitcoin Cash. just talk right now. [09:23:16] this was recently published though suggesting more uptake though I guess https://btcmanager.com/college-students-are-the-second-biggest-miners-of-cryptocurrency/ [09:23:29] I find it pretty hard to believe their numbers [09:24:03] well [09:24:09] sorry, original article: https://www.pcmag.com/news/366952/college-kids-are-using-campus-electricity-to-mine-crypto [09:24:11] just talk, no? rumors [09:24:18] college students are already more educated than the average consumer [09:24:29] we are not seeing many such customers anymore [09:24:30] it's data from cisco monitoring network traffic